Violent Crimes Reduction Bill.

[Raffles]

Intersting how some people on here think that tourney markers and all the shiny bits don't look like guns. Take your 'marker' out (without gas or hopper - just screw the barrel on) and point it at a complete stranger and shout 'hands up' - see what happens.

That DM4/5 is a perfect example. Close up and in a photo (touched up no doubt) they do look dissimilar - but from a distance...

In fact - they are very similar just in those photos - they have a trigger and barrel - the basics of any gun.

Please don't think that this bill does not concern you - it does. I only hope Steve Bull reads this thread and posts something positive that we can do about it - rather than us doing the old 'if I close my eyes they can't see me' trick.

Do you think the government cares about 'seperating' tournament markers from milsim ones? No, they will just do a blanket ban - makes life for them much easier - and colours some of the grey areas.

Yes, it says 'replica' - but how do you define replica? If having a trigger and a barrel makes it a replica (regardless of colour etc.) then we are indeed 'shafted'. Pointing a golf-club, bit of wood or indeed anything in a 'gun' like manor at an armed copper will get you shot! Simple!

This is a REAL threat to ALL air-soft markers/weapons/guns/whatever. Wake up guys (and girls ).

JD - see you at the 19th

 

[Nickyboy]

Originally posted by Liz
*****knee-jerk reaction******

This is a scaremongererererers word. I don't honestly think the majority of decisions are made using this process.

Cause and effect is certainly and issue with our lawmaking, but I don't feel that this happends as much as you think.

The caps and hoodies thing is an example. Everyone whining, people guessing that the knees are going up, but the "ban" didn't happen.

 

[mad dog]

See the issue is not one of weapons because if you had a "pea shooter" and stuck a dart in it tipped with rat poison and blew it at someone it would be considered as a dangerous weapon.

God what do I know, ha ha.

Now what is believed we do for a sport is fire rounds called balls at people, like minded sports people using markers looked at by the public as gun's.

Change the picture portrayed by the public and you educate our game that is viewed by the public, that is if we ever get spectators. Many have promised it but it never has come about, same for the PA loads promised and fell flat on its face, that was a shame because the potential was there.

Anything else is down to education of people not knowing what is going on.

Paintballs players have a short attention span, until something cracks there brain into adrealin mode, then surprise interest once again.

I mentioned marker registration ages ago, and it got ignored by the fact players are just not interested because it takes effort to do it.

Oh well, what will be will be..... at least I tried to change this before it all happens or not as the case may be.
Its now up to the rest of the players in the country but believe this don't go doing it on your own to the local mp, we all need to work together as the profile increases and issues like ramping gets into the public eye.
But believe me we don't need ramping, what ever happened to the good old day's of just pull the trigger and fire the dam thing.
It takes more skill to do that hense a better more capable player able to lay down paint.
Look at it this way just change it all back to the way it was and then ban any player that cheats full stop.

 

[John C]

Glad you reminded us of ramping Mad Dog.

Here we all are, thinking the government are worried about air guns being converted to fire real bullets, or 'replica' weapons being used in robberies due to their likeness to the real thing.


When actually its all about whether us tourney players are getting one shot one pull or not!!!

 

[stongle]

Originally posted by mad dog
See the issue is not one of weapons because if you had a "pea shooter" and stuck a dart in it tipped with rat poison and blew it at someone it would be considered as a dangerous weapon.

God what do I know, ha ha.

Now what is believed we do for a sport is fire rounds called balls at people, like minded sports people using markers looked at by the public as gun's.

Change the picture portrayed by the public and you educate our game that is viewed by the public, that is if we ever get spectators. Many have promised it but it never has come about, same for the PA loads promised and fell flat on its face, that was a shame because the potential was there.

Anything else is down to education of people not knowing what is going on.

Paintballs players have a short attention span, until something cracks there brain into adrealin mode, then surprise interest once again.

I mentioned marker registration ages ago, and it got ignored by the fact players are just not interested because it takes effort to do it.

Oh well, what will be will be..... at least I tried to change this before it all happens or not as the case may be.
Its now up to the rest of the players in the country but believe this don't go doing it on your own to the local mp, we all need to work together as the profile increases and issues like ramping gets into the public eye.
But believe me we don't need ramping, what ever happened to the good old day's of just pull the trigger and fire the dam thing.
It takes more skill to do that hense a better more capable player able to lay down paint.
Look at it this way just change it all back to the way it was and then ban any player that cheats full stop.

One of these days, you'll get your own religion.

 

[le-pig]

Originally posted by mad dog
See the issue is not one of weapons because if you had a "pea shooter" and stuck a dart in it tipped with rat poison and blew it at someone it would be considered as a dangerous weapon.

God what do I know, ha ha.

Now what is believed we do for a sport is fire rounds called balls at people, like minded sports people using markers looked at by the public as gun's.

Change the picture portrayed by the public and you educate our game that is viewed by the public, that is if we ever get spectators. Many have promised it but it never has come about, same for the PA loads promised and fell flat on its face, that was a shame because the potential was there.

Anything else is down to education of people not knowing what is going on.

Paintballs players have a short attention span, until something cracks there brain into adrealin mode, then surprise interest once again.

I mentioned marker registration ages ago, and it got ignored by the fact players are just not interested because it takes effort to do it.

Oh well, what will be will be..... at least I tried to change this before it all happens or not as the case may be.
Its now up to the rest of the players in the country but believe this don't go doing it on your own to the local mp, we all need to work together as the profile increases and issues like ramping gets into the public eye.
But believe me we don't need ramping, what ever happened to the good old day's of just pull the trigger and fire the dam thing.
It takes more skill to do that hense a better more capable player able to lay down paint.
Look at it this way just change it all back to the way it was and then ban any player that cheats full stop.

our biggest threat is the shops that sell paint ball guns as toys,regerstration is a good idea but how will you enforce it without bringing bad press ie paintball guns are only to be used by paintballers act will only result in chavs realising there potential buying them and filling the hoppers with ball bearings

as for paintballers attention span,the publics will be a damn site shorter ie bad press = ban it
i do not agree with ramping at all but this does not affect the way the general public see are sport,if anything it makes better viewing for them
somthing needs to be done though

 

[Skeet]

I refer to previous posts on my part, almost two years ago.

Maybe if we made an effort to licence ourselves it might show willing. I hold both firearms and shotgun certificates,...so understand a bit about in's and outs.

If the UKPSF..was to set up a registration process...similar to the aplicaton of a firearm...ie: register your ownership or intent to own a Paintball marker, along with someone or two someone's to vouch for you, independently..maybe a reference from a site owner...
This of course would all be voluntary, but as and when people buy or sell markers, information could be updated..this might help reduce marker theft.
If most regular Paintballers had one..then they could produce it if asked at paintball stores...whereby it gives the store owner a check..if he has any doubts about the customer (ie doesnt know them)
Would also help with online purchases/deals..the vendor can ask for Name address and Register no...this could be checked via a UKPSF website, if it checks out great..if not the vendor then can make an informed decision..
I hope im not upsetting anyone, its not meant as a sinister thing, more a way of protecting ourselves and our sport...
After all...unless someone plays paintball regularily or is involved in the sport, they dont need a marker.
It wont make the sport more difficult to get into..as people dont go out to buy a marker, before they play paintball (or they shouldnt do!) so after a few trips to a site...the field owner could give a reference.
I would say that, i dont suppose the problems are caused by people buying Angels or Timmys, more the budget end of the market..
We dont really want people going out buying markers to use in their own back gardens (solely) as very few back gardens are large or isolated enough to play paintball in safely...so anyone who wants a marker for legitimate purposes would be fine as they generally are involved in the sport before they invest in it..

Gaz prepares to be flamed...but hopes he doesnt!

P.s. Doesnt the Law say that an Offensive or Lethal weapon is catagorised as having been Made..Intended..or ADAPTED..in which case, as someone has said..the device is no longer what it was originally..


SECOND POST

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Originally posted by Smudge
"HEAR,HEAR!!!!"



BUT: If a paintballer with his/her own marker was to hold a license for having the marker and using it for the sport......
wouldn't you still get people who own the marker not for the 'sporting use' making them self a 'fake' license

How would the U.K.P.S.F know whether or not he has bought the marker intending to use it for paintball tournies,rec~balling,etc...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Right well...First off they have to know what the "Certificate" (better than Licence) looks like before they can copy it...also, the vendor would be able to check Certificate details against the Proposed UKPSF website, in order to verify it..in this case say someone had copied another players licence somehow, or outright stolen it, the Vendor could check the register for Markers allready allocated to that Certificate (details of which would not be on the certificate) this can then be used to check if the person knows what they "all ready own" or in the case of the Certificates rightfull owner not having purchased any markers before it was stolen (therefore none registered) the vendor could ask who Their referees were or which site owner Recommended them (also not on the Certificate)
If someone wants to Forge any document it is possible, but for our purposes, it would be extreme.

Secondly...the person who has applied for the Certificate...will have been either Refereed by two fellow Paintballers (also Certificate holders) Or by the Proprietor of the site they frequently attend..
(if a punter wishes to take up the sport more seriously, to Walk On level, they could apply for an application...part of which they should hand to the site operator..who will then be able to monitor the Applicant's suitability and record number of visits..to which there would be a minimum amount before Certification could be granted..5 -10..dont know)
..So..the UKPSF will know that the Certificate holder has been vetted...There could be different uses featured on a Certificate eg:
ROBBO from Nexus (and paintball History, Present and future, Hi Pete!) would have something like "Professional Use" featured on his Certificate and Someone like myself would have "Amateur Use" and Joe Walkon would have "Recreational Use" on his...
This could also be another way of checking for fraud or theft...
If a "Professional Use" Certificate turns up at Planet to buy a £100 marker (assuming they dont Recognise the Player) eyebrows could be raised "Why does he/she want that?"

Like I said before..this is only my own...quickly created ideas, and is not intended to be Draconian in any way..just a means of protecting the Sport, The Players and of course people like the young lady mentioned.
The idea is, that someone without a Certificate could be refused, when trying to purchase a marker ( i say "could" because not being a legal document, it is upto the Vendors to decide..but I feel sure that the majority of "proper" paintball retailers would honour this.)
Any more comments..from you experienced peeps?
Gaz

THIRD POST

Steve...
As mentioned in the first post i did.
All "certificates" would be registered...the UKPSF or whatever body issues them...would have an Online website, where people can check the some details of another certificate holder, after ebtering their own Certificate number to gain access..this would enable s/h sales to be checked out before the Vendor sells the Marker....
Likewise.. an online store, would take the certificate number along with the other details and could also check the details...
If a Certificate is suspected stolen or Fraudulent..a simple call from the UKPSF to the "certificate" holder would clear up any falsifications " Are you trying to buy a marker?" "No..im in the bog!"

Smudge...You think its reasonably water tight?
Opinions would be good..i cant think of everything!
Gaz


FORTH POST

I thought that if this was in place, it would help deter theft within the sport, if something like the Dart incident or heven forbid worse, occured, our spokespeople could request the serial number/make of the marker..this could then be used to either convict a wrong dooer, or return stolen goods to their rightfull owner or, most importantly, point out that the person who possesed the marker IS NOT, part of the paintball community, as he is not registered..the potential to explain the "certification" process can only be good for the sport, to help the authorities and joe public to realise that we are proffesional about our sport.
Gaz

Also...a recent post.
http://www.p8ntballer-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46969

I can past teh section on Imitation Firearms as well if necessary. Should add, that this is the 2002 edition, and I believe has been amended recently.

 

[JoseDominguez]

Ramping, ramping, ramping, ........

Sorry, my head got stuck in a loop. Markers look enough like guns to get them included if it's pushed far enough. Also, bear in mind that the only reason a paintball marker is ignored at all is because it can only fire paintballs.
And nothing else.

Ever.

Which is of course true, if it wasn't, I'm sure we'd be more worried about alternate ammo and it's possible repercussions. But, of course there is no such thing available in the UK. As that would be plain silly in light of recent events and the governments stance on air weapons etc....

Because, if you fire anything but a paintball from a marker, it's not a marker any more....... it's legally an air weapon.

Ringing any bells?

 

[Raffles]

Poor old reballs and the such like. Unfortunately, JD is right.

I still don't think that registration or self-policing is the answer. Shotgun licences never stopped armed robbers. Now maybe if you need a licence to SELL the damn things in the first place - that would deter a lot of the 'high streets'. Only down side is that prices would get pushed back up.

It's a trade off - cheaper paintball or safer paintball?

Maybe all 'guns' should be stored in a 'gun' room at a local authorised paintball centre? Something I think they tried to do with handguns.

BTW - did I not mention about ramping in my first post in here (the second in the thread?) .

 

[Gyroscope]

How different do you guys think ramping looks to the average non-player? Any different than walking a trigger?

The problem it seems you are facing is that they look like guns, shoot things, and are outside most people's experience.