I already play golfOriginally posted by Raffles
Besides which, you could always take up golf
"Fore"
handicap of 6Its very relaxing
handicap of 6Its very relaxing
Also posted on the how to preserve our sport thread.
Firearms laws in the UK have been effectivly in force since 1906 when the first acts were passed preventing ownership of certain classes of weapon.This was done for the STATED purpose of "Preventing armed issurection among the populace" as the government of the time realised that we simply had more armed civillians than we did soldiers and police officers.
Things were changed and tweaked until 1965 when owners of C02 powered guns were required to register their weapons on what amounted to a "dog" licence.3 years later the SAME guns were raised to the status of "Section 1 firearms" and the nice list in the hands of the authorities meant that they didn't have much to do to find out who all the owners were.
1968 came and went along with a HUGE update to the now imfamous acts taking away full auto weapons and certain classes of specially dangerous weapons by changing their class.
1988 arrived and the incident at hungerford took place.In the original green paper that was proposed at the time handguns were slated to be banned as Ryan killed more with his 92F than he did with the M1 carbine and AK put together.After some kicking round the government decided it was less likely to get through if handguns were included and removed that from the white paper of the time.
The ban came and went with owners such as myself getting the market value of the gun paid out in compensation for our losses.A little clearification was added making burst fire weapons illegal (so removing the last of the full auto weapons missed in 68)
1995 arrived and one of the most terrible events of the last century happened...Thomas Hamilton gunned down the weakest members of our society at Dumblane using a LEGAL handgun.The less human members of our government realised some votes could be scored and set about banning hand guns (at the initial stages .22 rimfire was set to be permitted but they were also included in later acts).Owners of high value handguns were offered a pittance in compensation and like others I decided to book some guns into a higher class and exported others off shore for use overseas.
On the horizon the government saw the growing outcry about errosion of our rights and sport and decided to knock C02 guns off ticket as a peace offering and lever to get the gun ban through "Why do you need that 50 cal DE when your only shooting at paper,you can use one of these real looking C02 guns instead and still enjoy your hobby,but more safely"?
Along came the Anti Social Behaviour Act under everybodies radar sneaking in a class change to the brocock system meaning they were being changed in class from airguns to limited section 5 weapons.The government didn't have the money or resources to go chasing up every gun in the UK so simply said "Thou shalt apply for a licence to keep your guns" meaning all owners who weren't scumbags had to go out and get all the security a normal section 1 weapon required just to keep their LEGALLY purchased property.
Now we have this violent crime bill on it's way..
Currently the sale of COMPLETE guns is a target and is LIKELY to be banned so making life pretty bad for the small number of retailers who rely on the business and a tiny number of others who make the odd sale on forums etc.So why is all the above a problem??
There are retailers in the UK who have their houses...their HOMES! tied up in their business (No I'm not one of them) and they have worked hard to build up a decent business over some number of years.As the bill reads SOME of these people could go under by not being able to sell complete guns.Why should you care you ask??
it doesn't affect me.....OR DOES IT?
Say a few retailers go the same way? who do I buy my spares from that I cannot make? simple I either import them (hello customs) or give up trying to fix my marker and take up another hobby.
Well maybe I should just go out and stock up before it all comes in??
Great but even with the best will in the world the part that breaks is going to be the ONE part I didn't get a spare of @@!!@@ .
Ahh well so we lose the retailers and have to rely on self made or imports??
Look back over the above post and see the trend in UK gun laws...slowly,slowly each and EVERY class of item gun shaped is being removed from private ownership and when this ban makes little or NO difference to crime figures the government will need to do something else.Those imports your relying on to keep your pride and joy going is now in danger...would it not have been a better idea to fight for your rights when you had the chance and the retailers support? when there were more people around to fight you may have stood a chance..now..well your left with a broken gun and no real reason to keep it...best just throw it away...EXACTLY how our nanny government want things to go!! divide and conquor
Exert from the reading of the VCR bill yesterday
The point about airsoft made by my hon. Friend the Member for Swansea, East (Mrs. James) also applies to paintballing, re-enactment societies and use in television and film, where a legitimate case may be made for a certain use—I emphasise the word "may"—so we set out in clause 32 the power for the Secretary of State to regulate exemptions in such circumstances. I will listen to such representations, but those representations would have to make a very powerful case for a certain
exemption. That is the criteria that I would use.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmhansrd/cm050620/debtext/50620-15.htm
to take you to the relevant section.
Firearms laws in the UK have been effectivly in force since 1906 when the first acts were passed preventing ownership of certain classes of weapon.This was done for the STATED purpose of "Preventing armed issurection among the populace" as the government of the time realised that we simply had more armed civillians than we did soldiers and police officers.
Things were changed and tweaked until 1965 when owners of C02 powered guns were required to register their weapons on what amounted to a "dog" licence.3 years later the SAME guns were raised to the status of "Section 1 firearms" and the nice list in the hands of the authorities meant that they didn't have much to do to find out who all the owners were.
1968 came and went along with a HUGE update to the now imfamous acts taking away full auto weapons and certain classes of specially dangerous weapons by changing their class.
1988 arrived and the incident at hungerford took place.In the original green paper that was proposed at the time handguns were slated to be banned as Ryan killed more with his 92F than he did with the M1 carbine and AK put together.After some kicking round the government decided it was less likely to get through if handguns were included and removed that from the white paper of the time.
The ban came and went with owners such as myself getting the market value of the gun paid out in compensation for our losses.A little clearification was added making burst fire weapons illegal (so removing the last of the full auto weapons missed in 68)
1995 arrived and one of the most terrible events of the last century happened...Thomas Hamilton gunned down the weakest members of our society at Dumblane using a LEGAL handgun.The less human members of our government realised some votes could be scored and set about banning hand guns (at the initial stages .22 rimfire was set to be permitted but they were also included in later acts).Owners of high value handguns were offered a pittance in compensation and like others I decided to book some guns into a higher class and exported others off shore for use overseas.
On the horizon the government saw the growing outcry about errosion of our rights and sport and decided to knock C02 guns off ticket as a peace offering and lever to get the gun ban through "Why do you need that 50 cal DE when your only shooting at paper,you can use one of these real looking C02 guns instead and still enjoy your hobby,but more safely"?
Along came the Anti Social Behaviour Act under everybodies radar sneaking in a class change to the brocock system meaning they were being changed in class from airguns to limited section 5 weapons.The government didn't have the money or resources to go chasing up every gun in the UK so simply said "Thou shalt apply for a licence to keep your guns" meaning all owners who weren't scumbags had to go out and get all the security a normal section 1 weapon required just to keep their LEGALLY purchased property.
Now we have this violent crime bill on it's way..
Currently the sale of COMPLETE guns is a target and is LIKELY to be banned so making life pretty bad for the small number of retailers who rely on the business and a tiny number of others who make the odd sale on forums etc.So why is all the above a problem??
There are retailers in the UK who have their houses...their HOMES! tied up in their business (No I'm not one of them) and they have worked hard to build up a decent business over some number of years.As the bill reads SOME of these people could go under by not being able to sell complete guns.Why should you care you ask??
it doesn't affect me.....OR DOES IT?
Say a few retailers go the same way? who do I buy my spares from that I cannot make? simple I either import them (hello customs) or give up trying to fix my marker and take up another hobby.
Well maybe I should just go out and stock up before it all comes in??
Great but even with the best will in the world the part that breaks is going to be the ONE part I didn't get a spare of @@!!@@ .
Ahh well so we lose the retailers and have to rely on self made or imports??
Look back over the above post and see the trend in UK gun laws...slowly,slowly each and EVERY class of item gun shaped is being removed from private ownership and when this ban makes little or NO difference to crime figures the government will need to do something else.Those imports your relying on to keep your pride and joy going is now in danger...would it not have been a better idea to fight for your rights when you had the chance and the retailers support? when there were more people around to fight you may have stood a chance..now..well your left with a broken gun and no real reason to keep it...best just throw it away...EXACTLY how our nanny government want things to go!! divide and conquor
Exert from the reading of the VCR bill yesterday
The point about airsoft made by my hon. Friend the Member for Swansea, East (Mrs. James) also applies to paintballing, re-enactment societies and use in television and film, where a legitimate case may be made for a certain use—I emphasise the word "may"—so we set out in clause 32 the power for the Secretary of State to regulate exemptions in such circumstances. I will listen to such representations, but those representations would have to make a very powerful case for a certain
exemption. That is the criteria that I would use.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmhansrd/cm050620/debtext/50620-15.htm
to take you to the relevant section.
thanks youch but once again from the page you refered to this was on it:
Of course, defining an imitation weapon has always been difficult. At present, the law refers to anything that has the appearance of a firearm whether or not it is capable of discharging any shot, bullet or other missile. That definition works in practice by virtue of the fact that it is subject to a qualifier relating either to the weapon's design: whether it is readily convertible; or to its misuse: whether it is possessed to cause fear of unlawful violence. However, it is a wide-ranging definition, and we want to bear down most of all on those weapons that closely resemble real firearms, which are being increasingly used to threaten, intimidate or rob.
If most of us saw one of the imitation weapons that I am talking about lying on a table alongside a real gun, we would not be able to tell the difference between them without picking them up. We will therefore make it an offence to manufacture, import or sell a realistic imitation. Under the definition that we use, an imitation will be caught by the new offence if it is indistinguishable from a certain make or model, or is sufficiently similar to a generic type of firearm.
Now to me thats a loop hole we can exploit.
However realistic firearms looking paintball guns will not be able to exploit it.
However if we are able to exploit it we must still do something to have our sport recognised and sanctioned by our government. Now that would require a governing body for our sport and registration. That is if we want to survive as as youch says they are knocking everything on the head one by one so even if we survive this it will only be a matter of time before htey come for us.
Of course, defining an imitation weapon has always been difficult. At present, the law refers to anything that has the appearance of a firearm whether or not it is capable of discharging any shot, bullet or other missile. That definition works in practice by virtue of the fact that it is subject to a qualifier relating either to the weapon's design: whether it is readily convertible; or to its misuse: whether it is possessed to cause fear of unlawful violence. However, it is a wide-ranging definition, and we want to bear down most of all on those weapons that closely resemble real firearms, which are being increasingly used to threaten, intimidate or rob.
If most of us saw one of the imitation weapons that I am talking about lying on a table alongside a real gun, we would not be able to tell the difference between them without picking them up. We will therefore make it an offence to manufacture, import or sell a realistic imitation. Under the definition that we use, an imitation will be caught by the new offence if it is indistinguishable from a certain make or model, or is sufficiently similar to a generic type of firearm.
Now to me thats a loop hole we can exploit.
However realistic firearms looking paintball guns will not be able to exploit it.
However if we are able to exploit it we must still do something to have our sport recognised and sanctioned by our government. Now that would require a governing body for our sport and registration. That is if we want to survive as as youch says they are knocking everything on the head one by one so even if we survive this it will only be a matter of time before htey come for us.
There are numerous loopholes that are exploitable such as the exemption certificates, my point is that we must stop shoving our head in the sand before it is too late. As the progression shows we are slowly seeing the erosion of all legal shooting sports in this country. the shooting sports on the agenda for the government to ban at the moment are realistic replicas yes and as you say only a small number of paintball guns fall under that umbrella, however on reading the actual bill it says that it is a realistic replica if it looks like one to an ordinary person off the street. Now for you and me that would not be a problem however we would count as experts and as such not able to give an opinion also the manner to load or fire is largely irrelevant. if the person asked for an opinion is (god forefend) a member of either the GCN or MAG then the owner is totally screwed.
The point about airsoft made by my hon. Friend the Member for Swansea, East (Mrs. James) also applies to paintballing, re-enactment societies and use in television and film, where a legitimate case may be made for a certain use—I emphasise the word "may"—so we set out in clause 32 the power for the Secretary of State to regulate exemptions in such circumstances. I will listen to such representations, but those representations would have to make a very powerful case for a certain
exemption. That is the criteria that I would use.
This statement talks of making a strong case for exemption, one way of gaining the exemption would be to license all users with a 3 year "dog" type license, the paranoid see 1965 in my previous post
lastly would "running around on a field shooting my mates" be a good reason?
Jasper you talk a lot of sense, I hope the rest of the paintball community listen to you.
The point about airsoft made by my hon. Friend the Member for Swansea, East (Mrs. James) also applies to paintballing, re-enactment societies and use in television and film, where a legitimate case may be made for a certain use—I emphasise the word "may"—so we set out in clause 32 the power for the Secretary of State to regulate exemptions in such circumstances. I will listen to such representations, but those representations would have to make a very powerful case for a certain
exemption. That is the criteria that I would use.
This statement talks of making a strong case for exemption, one way of gaining the exemption would be to license all users with a 3 year "dog" type license, the paranoid see 1965 in my previous post
lastly would "running around on a field shooting my mates" be a good reason?
Jasper you talk a lot of sense, I hope the rest of the paintball community listen to you.
I know this thread has gone stagnent - but this is interesting : http://newssearch.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/results.pl?scope=newsukfs&tab=news&q=paintball
...and for those that don't remember - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/1628682.stm
...and for those that don't remember - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/1628682.stm