Violent Crimes Reduction Bill.

[Rosie]

No they shot him twice, and it was wrapped in a carrier bag. Doesnt make it much better though!
He was apparently quite deaf, and had just had an operation on his stomach. He didnt hear the police guys apparently. He was found to have been shot in the back of the head, which kind of discounts the whole "he was pointing it at me like a gun"


What apparently happened was....a guy in the pub had phoned the police and said a drunk Irishman (he was Scottish, and had drunk only lemonade) was in the pub with a sawn off shotgun in a carrier bag, and he was leaving right now. The police came, shouted to/warned him, he didnt hear and got shot twice in the back of the head, resulting in a closed coffin funeral for an innocent man recovering from cancer.

 

[Rosie]

Originally posted by matski
Ban table legs too in my opinion, or paint them day-glow orange.

Well yeah when you look at it like that I could go on a violent rampage with a javelin or a shot, and im sure a discus would make a nasty dent in your head: maybe we should ban athletics!

And also you can get javelins from most big sport shops so the kids on the street could get access to them quite easily and cheaply! kids running around with something so dangerous...

But even if they banned javelins, there'd still be sticks, wouldnt there: maybe we should just tie all 10-20 yr olds up and leave em in dark rooms: that would cut crime for sure

 

[Liz]

I think the biggest problem with our elected "representatives" is that they pass laws to give the mass of the population the perception that they are "doing something" about crime/health care/schooling/pollution/whatever this months cause celebre is. There's too many stabbing incidents - lets ban all pointy knives. There's too much congestion on the roads - lets make it so expensive to use them that no-one will drive anywhere (like the train companies solution to overcrowding - put the fares up so no-one will use the trains! ). NHS waiting lists are too long - put performance measures in place & fine hospitals that don't meet targets. "O" level pass rates are down - get rid of "O" levels in favour of GCSEs; GCSE pass rates aren't good enough - extend the range of subjects so the kids can take exams in their favorite hobby rather than academic subjects.
And now - people commit crimes by using replica guns, so ban anything that could be interpreted as a real gun. It's called knee-jerk reaction and British governments of all hues and parties have been guilty of this for an awful long time - something to do with the inherent short-termism of elected governments.
Lobbying MPs only works if you belong to a majority group or very large & vocal minority - by no stretch of the imagination can paintballers be classed as anything but a very small minority.

 

[JoseDominguez]

Originally posted by gyroscope
Just commenting on the fatalism of most posters in the UK when it comes to the notion of attempting to influence their representatives in government. Sorry if that came off nasty, but I was under the impression that parlimentarians were reliant on public support to hold office. Mobilizing vocal proponents is a pretty common way to influence our government here. Sometimes it has no effect, sometimes a loudmouthed minority wields undue influence.

Is there no attempt to influence the government there by citizen lobbying? I am asking in all sincerity- I am not versed in the relationship you have with your government, although I was under the impression that it was a representative democracy. It seems wierd that all the ability to get things done rests with a Steve Bull.

I see what you mean....... problem for the UK is that guns have never been prevalent anyway....... so every time we lose a bit of our "freedom" it''s not a big issue for the general public. As for lobbying..... it did no good for the handgun owners. And all the anti-gun brigade need to say is "well, our gun crime rate is low in comparison to the states" and it makes it hard to argue.
Paintball is starting to get a higher profile in the UK....... which unfortunately means we've stuck our heads over the parapet.

My main concern is that "alternative" ammo is being made available in the UK...... (solid rounds etc.....) hard to argue that what you own is "just a paintball marker, it can only fire paintballs" when it's not.
We need to self regulate, yes, but have we left it too late?

And as for the knee-jerk reaction.... the latest clampdown on air weapons in particular was triggered by a Scottish toddler being killed by an airgun pellet. So it's hard to call it an over-reaction.

 

[Flash-Bugout]

Firearm, or looks like firearm:

Not firearm, doesn't look like firearm:

Panic over people.

 

[Rosie]

Yep they are elected, yup they represent us, supposedly.

Its only democratic in that we get to 'choose' who sits to represent us (still, the HOP arent socially representative).
We do not actually get a say in what happens. We cant initiate referendums.
First Past the Post is baaaaaaaaaad (or maybe its good, because it disadvantages the Conservatives lol)

Kneejerk reactions are the order of the day! Although why I dont know as they've got another four years

Also, Im sorrry but wtf is the need for this?? http://rap4.com/os/product_info.php/products_id/1297
What possible advantage could you get by making a loud noise and a cloud of yellow mist! As in several shots you see him fire and theres just this yellow mist comes out.

watch the video..."The M68 Thunder Grenade propels four .68 caliber paintballs" isnt that illegal anyway? http://rap4.com/video/paintball_grenade/m68_thunder_grenade.wmv

I dont care if its got an orange tag on the front of it, it looks bloody dangerous to me and Im a player! If you took that into the street they wouldnt warn you, believe me. And if someone stuck that in my face and asked for my money, theyd get it!

You cant just say that its airsofts problem, because its ours too, anyone that went to the Big Game this year must have seen the BlackMercury trade stand that was there with all the military stuff like scopes and all that rubbish

Also

 

[JoseDominguez]

17 and making more sense than anyone in power.

And you have the added advantage of not having voted...... therefore: Blair aint your fault either

 

[JoseDominguez]

Originally posted by Flash-Bugout
Firearm, or looks like firearm:

Not firearm, doesn't look like firearm:

Panic over people.

Yes, but a marker can be used to "threaten or intimidate in the manner of a firearm". And to someone who's not a player.... how would 15 in the face feel?

Anyway, our boys in blue did shoot a man for carrying a chair leg in a carrier bag.

What about armotech, tipmanns, in fact any flat black marker?
Do we ditch the scenario players here? Separate from them? Or do we stand by them and try to protect their hobby as well?
That's what it's boiling down to........ if we state that "markers are nothing like guns" then we are also stating that scenario/mil sim players are finished.

 

[Rosie]

Originally posted by JoseDominguez
What about armotech, tipmanns, in fact any flat black marker?
Do we ditch the scenario players here? Separate from them? Or do we stand by them and try to protect their hobby as well?
That's what it's boiling down to........ if we state that "markers are nothing like guns" then we are also stating that scenario/mil sim players are finished.

Yep we must remember that if woodsball goes then so does Tourney/Sup air ball: just because a particular brand or model doesnt look remotely like a gun, they will just do a big fat blanket ban which covers every paintball marker they wont bother to differentiate. Its all or nothing. They either ban all paintball markers or none.

I think if airsoft is banned then we're also in danger because they wont recognize/care that we are a sport, they will see that some markers eg: tippmans (heavily used as site markers) look incredibly military-like.

We have to realize that in fact a fair proportion could possibly be classed as replica firearms, and deal with it, not bitch moan and worry, and still sit on out fat arses and wait for Bully or UKPSF to sort it out.

 

[Jake]

My word some people are getting their knickers in a twist.

The reason the bill regarding immitation firearms was due to the very real problems of people taking an immitation firearm waving it around, upsetting members of the public and then getting shot by a very real MP5 pointed at them by a police officer. It is also as a direct result of the increase in the use of immitation firearms in violent offences, whilst the use of real firearms is actually declining. If you were an armed police officer would you take the risk if someone was pointing a bb gun that looked like a glock 9mm from 15 meters away.

The likelihood of paintball being banned as a direct or even indirect result of this legislation is minimal. Unless of course markers become more readily available and get sold to muppets who don't know what they are doing.

The comment matski made about a guy with a table leg getting shot also demonstrates the complete and utter rubbish that is reported on the TV and in the newspapers. If half the stuff that happened was actually reported in that case you would all be up in arms over the treatment of the officers involved.

If you don't want paintball to get banned start helping people like Bully professionalise your approach to government and sporting bodies.