Ton Tons @ CC

[Red Ring Inflictor]

I think Robbo has a point in what he is suggesting however costly taking the moral high ground might become IF the guns were as hot as has been suggested here.

Enough is enough.

There are ways to get this substantially under control which requires some investment in equipment but more than anything else determined resolve from the top level of the league.

 

[Lump]

As I see this situation. This goes directly back to making the reff on field and a reff ultimate responsible for the player actions on that field. That if a reff is not able to check for this cheater modes how can they police it if they are not given the tools to do it. Most of us now know what a marker shooting 20bps sounds like but proving it and using that proof to eliminate players.thats another matter. If a marshal pulls a player for over ramping marker then. He says you’re out because I heard your marker ramp over limit. Then reff are going to be slagged off for having no proof .plus some reffs can use this as a tool to be biased towards teams.
As it stands we know it happens but the guys and girls on the field doing the hard work are powerless

 

[Beaker]

There was a balistic chrono on site.

I think it belonged to one of the Menace UK guys as I saw them trying their own guns over it.

I also know that National and Smart Parts have them.

Couldn't they have even borrowed one!

 

[jahlad]

this is turning into quite a debate with some damn good points raised too.

robbo, seems like you are thinking like me too.....how can anyone afford to put the safety of another player at risk, what gun cheats are doing more or less amounts to breaking the law in some places........thinking to the extreme doesnt knowingly using a marker that is velocity ramped amount to endangering the life of the person you fire it at.

its getting silly again, ramping rof was introduced to stop silly cheat modes but now it seems that the cap is completly ignored and players are risking injuring (or worse) someone to get an edge!

lets hear what the ton ton have to say for themselves.....at least one of them must be reading this thread

 

[EyeFellOva]

I have to agree with every point that has been raised.

I am relatively new to the tournament scene, but threads like this have always interested me. I have followed most debates about ramping, cheating, and any other act that can alter the course of a match in a team's favour.

Most of this, I think, can put off new players from moving into tournament play.

If this sport has a hope of becoming both widely accepted and more popular then we need to get the rulesnailed down. Not just per tournament, but for the whole sport. Why do each league have their own rules? Surely it would help the sport if we had one set of rules (like Football) that teams could learn, and refs could enforce.

As many people have said, money will have to be spent, but I'm sure more money would be spent if someone was seriously hurt by a cheating player.

On the subject of the TonTons, even my dad who has only played paintball once in the woods, noticed that they seemed to be firing faster than every other player, and their shots appeared to go further (he asked why their back player could shoot his mirror and every ball break on the bunker, but the other player could hardly hit him). And I think the bonus-balling was horrendous! Every player that got shot out was hit at least 5 more times. As they'd had players banned for this youf've thought they would have been more careful.

I don't want to point any fingers, and I can't prove what I have said. But surely if this many people have posted the same observations, either it's the truth, or someone was smoking too much weed under the stands!

I personally wouldn't wish any player the pain they might endure getting mugged in the face by a hot, uncapped marker. And I agree with Robbo that refusing to play teams that clearly cheat is the only way to make the organisers listen.

As I am interested in joining a team next year, I hope that all this can get sorted out and people can start playing without the worry of having your mask smashed and taking 20 shots to the face. I know I'll not be playing pro any time soon, but things like this filter into the lower leagues.

 

[webby]

The only way I see anyone can stop gun cheats that ramp BPS over the allowed limit is to limit the hoppers used by players. There are boards out there which use a random combination of button pushing/trigger pulling to enter cheater modes, and these cannot be detected by the reffs.

Unless we can somehow get someone like Will from Tadao to invent a machine to check board programming, the only way we can stop people from cheating with ROF is to limit the hoppers. Say no one is allowed to use their own hoppers, they all have to use ones that have been tested by the MS to be able to feed 15bps and no more. Say you walk into the chrono station and take a hopper out of a tub and stick it on your marker.

As the hopper cannot load more than 15bps, your gun cannot shoot more than 15bps. However, this would be expensive and I doubt it would actually work, as the hoppers would probably be abused and wouldn't work half the time.

Just my 2cents...

Oh, and I'm not going to spill the beans on who the TonTon player was who jacked up his FPS at a local tourney, as I do not know if he actually played with it like that.

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

Paintball has always been riddled with "cheats".

Granted, velocity ramping is significantly worse and more dangerous than other forms of cheating..... and as such SHOULD have the consequence that a team is ostracised, if they are in fact proven to have used it.

BUT - in reality, I think we should put a lot of the blame squarely on the shoulders of the MS promoters, for knowing this problem existed, but having failed to invest in the technology that is readily available, and would have caught anyone shooting above the allowed limits for velocity and ROF.

Nick

 

[duffistuta]

Originally posted by EyeFellOva



1. Most of this, I think, can put off new players from moving into tournament play.

2. If this sport has a hope of becoming both widely accepted and more popular then we need to get the rulesnailed down.

3. As they'd had players banned for this youf've thought they would have been more careful.

4. And I agree with Robbo that refusing to play teams that clearly cheat is the only way to make the organisers listen.

5. but things like this filter into the lower leagues.

1. Absolutely.

2. Have as many rules as you like, if you can't enforce them they are an irrelevance.

3. Unless they either couldn't control the excessive shots due to the nature of their guns, or the penlties were not stringent enough to cause them undue concern.

4. No, it's not. And that is a very, very dangerous precedent to take.

5. They are already there and have been for a few seasons.

 

[EyeFellOva]

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff

BUT - in reality, I think we should put a lot of the blame squarely on the shoulders of the MS promoters, for knowing this problem existed, but having failed to invest in the technology that is readily available, and would have caught anyone shooting above the allowed limits for velocity and ROF.

Nick

I agree, it's not on the shoulders of the players to stop this happening, it's on the heads of the event organisers. If players refused to play, and entrance fees didn't get paid, then they would have to either quit, or change.

No player wants to unnecessarily put themselves in harms way, in any sport!

 

[EyeFellOva]

Originally posted by duffistuta
4. No, it's not. And that is a very, very dangerous precedent to take.

What course of action would you suggest?

Originally posted by duffistuta 5. They are already there and have been for a few seasons.[/B]

That is what is putting me off. Not enough that I won't make the move, but it's a scary thought that sits in the back of my mind.