Ton Tons @ CC

[Robbo]

Originally posted by fred1
Robbo you mention investing in technology to catch a velocity ramping gun. Can't we just use a chrony. I mean one can't choose when a mode will kick in so just get some of those hand held chronies and stick em under the barrel when the gun is cycling full speed and check the velocity. Do this a bunch of times during a game and you should see if the velocity has gone up. Have the refs been running these kinds of checks? I know it sounds stupid but checking the velocity is alot easier than trying to determine how many balls a second a marker is shooting. We have the necessary technology.

Fred, in San Diego, they (NPPL) have a radar gun that can be used whilst players are still playing and is effective when pointed in the direction of players and doesn't require the judge to be close to any suspect marker.
In this way, you can come up behind players and hopefully negate any convenient 'switching off' of any cheat mode that enables velocity ramping.
As of yet, I don't think the Millennium have this technology and until they do, and they use then I ain't gonna trust the Ton Tons not to use velocity ramping.

 

[fred1]

I was thinking that the marshall could be sneaky. Come in pretend he is checking the player for a hit and suddenly bust out the chrony John Wayne style and get the guys velocity before he has time to stop shooting. I imagine that if the marshall stands there with his chrony a guy who has a velocity ramp won't shoot.... which is one way to penalise him... just stand next to the guy waving the chrony.

I'm not too familiar with cheat technology. Is it easy to activate and deactivate a cheat? Besides holding the trigger down what other methods are commonly used?

 

[Chicago]

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff

The ONLY thing that will work, as is also the case with ROF ramping, is a device that refs can use without getting in the players face, because you catch the real cheats when they don't know they are being watched.

Why catch what you can prevent?

 

[Just Curious]

I’m not the most technically minded and was wondering if somebody could explain this ‘Velocity Ramping’.

How does an electronic board influence the velocity on a marker? I always thought it was ‘bring a key and crank it up’.

I in no way doubt that they exist and one of my team-mates was on the receiving end of one at ‘Dam…he still has the scars on his arm and funny enough, have a guess who we were playing?

Its just I don’t understand how the board actually effects/increases the velocity when it is normally adjusted externally.

Ta

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by Just Curious
I’m not the most technically minded and was wondering if somebody could explain this ‘Velocity Ramping’.

How does an electronic board influence the velocity on a marker? I always thought it was ‘bring a key and crank it up’.

I in no way doubt that they exist and one of my team-mates was on the receiving end of one at ‘Dam…he still has the scars on his arm and funny enough, have a guess who we were playing?

Its just I don’t understand how the board actually effects/increases the velocity when it is normally adjusted externally.

Ta

I have been told it's achieved by variances in dwell time that is allegedly controlled by firmware in some markers.

 

[jahlad]

thats correct, modern electronic markers use a 'noid in one way or another to open a valve.....set the valve to open longer = more gas = higher velocity

 

[Just Curious]

I thought it may have been something like that. So a loss of maybe 3 or 4 shots, especially on a ramping marker, is a small price to pay...for the user.

Not a nice state of affairs! Do the people that actually make these boards understand the danger they are putting people in? I suppose the more apt question to ask is do they actually care?

 

[Beaker]

No they don't.

The anti-bolt stick tech on guns like DM's works the same way. If the gun has not been shot for a while it increases the dwell for that first shot, hence increasing FPS. Which is why you see players shooting their gun just before they hang a flag and get chrono'd - to avoid that first shot going hot from ABS.

But then that's been generally accepted as "OK velocity ramp", but I disagree with it.

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

Beaker:

The purpose of being able to increase dwell on the first shot, is to avoid FSDO.... and most guns have that function.

If people are using that to shoot the first shot hot, then our procedures for checking in guns is way off.

I mean, when a team turns up to chono in, the guns have not been fired for a significant period of time, and if the first shot is hot, the ref should require the player to turn it down.

The right way to do it WOULD be to shoot a further 2 or 3 shots, notice how much higher the first shot was, and then require the gun to be that margin below the velocity of the following shots.

If chrono refs do not do it that way, they are not being trained for the job properly.

Nick

 

[Beaker]

FSDO and bolt stick can be the same thing, but you can also have more usual situation where guns go hot on the first shot, with all subsequent shots under.

If a gun suffered from FSDO then I'm just going to keep the flag for a couple of minutes, let the gun "cool down" and then hang it knowing that I'll be safe. Nope, most people know that FSDO is a product of a problem gun and on 90% of guns ABS just serves to over compensate.

Chrono procedure - there isn't one, or at least if there is it isn't used. At most events guns are given clearing shots trying to text for bounce, then shot over the chrono, henc going past the ABS enabled point.

I agree you could write a chrono procedure that allowed you to prevent ABS from going over, but it would be easy to circumvent, just "accidentally" shoot your gun when giving it to the chrono ref.

I'm against any known changes to velocity on a gun, and ABS falls into that. If a gun has FSDO then it's a poorly designed / maintained gun and you should suffer as a result choosing to use it, not giving an excuse that allows everyone with a working gun to shoot 310+ on their first shot.

It's nowhere close to dedicated, hidden, velocity ramping, but it's something that is usually conveniently "missed" when talking about these things.