To ramp or not to ramp...?

[Robeenio]

trust me i think about a bajillion and 1 things all at once!

and i train twice a week on what i deem important in my game always looking to improve.

in anycase this has just desceneded into a pro ramp hate ramp thread with a side order of bitching

not what ben aimed to do and see whether people think its the future of the sport or not!

ramp like marmite is on the shelves being bought by many people!
love it hate it its here!

 

[Matski]

I'm not sure if we are actually agreeing now or not, even though we appear not to!

Matski - the same things can certainly be achieved with semi with enough practice, however, I would rather peoples time went into the development of other skills than trigger wiggling. As I don't (rightly or wrongly) hold fast fingers with much athletic regard I think on a longer timeline the negation of this skill imposed by ramping will lead to a more athletic (in my definition of the term) 'sport'.

In fairness and with no disrespect to you or Mario we would probably do better to elevate the playing level to the upper levels (Lang, Lasoya etc) for a fairer appraisal of the merits or not on the paintball skill sets due to ramping/FA. I just feel that anyone not playing NXL and Pro NPPL hasn't experienced enough of both (and be good enough players) to offer any conclusive evidence one way or the other. I take it you Matski, like I, have only experienced ramping domestically (e.g. PA) or at Millennium events (although their ramping modes have always seemed a little backward to me anyway)?

Mario was a convenient example because of his statement.
The level that Lang or Lasoya play at demonstrates exactly what i'm saying. You must have seen Oli play without ramping, do you really think that ramping 'opens up' a whole new aspect of the game for him and allows him to do stuff that he 'just could not do' before??..

 

[TheRenton]

yep, firing at 15bps with one hand while potting up. Try that on semi.

 

[Matski]

yep, firing at 15bps with one hand while potting up. Try that on semi.

Oli was/is at a level where he could do the same before but (for arguments sake) at a slightly slower speed, say 12bps, those extra 2-3 balls do not add a 'whole new aspect' to the game for a guy at that level and open up these amazing 'new doors'. It only does so for people without that kinda skill before, which is my point - thanks.

 

[Ben Frain]

Mario was a convenient example because of his statement.
The level that Lang or Lasoya play at demonstrates exactly what i'm saying. You must have seen Oli play without ramping, do you really think that ramping 'opens up' a whole new aspect of the game for him and allows him to do stuff that he 'just could not do' before??..

Actually, yes, I do. Not Lang specifically or singularly but having seen NXL games I think the game dynamics and skill sets in use are certainly different than those in NPPL. Whether or not this is inherent of ramping/FA to a large degree or more to do with the actual game format structure I feel people such as I (and indeed, I suspect even your good self) are perhaps ill equipped to contend with and can only speculate.

But also to further my point about timelines, it is perhaps too early since ramping/FA was introduced to fully appreciate any current evolution occuring in new skill sets. Perhaps in 5 years it will be more self evident. Perhaps not. However, I do feel that stating 'it takes skill out of the game' as a general response against ramping is perhaps a little short sighted and/or premature.

 

[john251282]

I think the point is that it is not the 2-3 extra balls that make the difference it is that you only have to pull the trigger at 5bps (depending on the sort of ramping). Thus making things like potting up much easier even for the likes of Oli etc.

Say we apply this to the way the Yankies do this. Semi in traditional 7man and ramping or full auto in NXL/PSP Xball. Now unfortunately I have not been able to play much Xball because it is not easily available in the UK but I can imagine that if you were playing it all day using semi only that it could become tiring on you fingers because you get more field time than you might in 7man. Especially at a multi day event

When you look at the pro level it is just a different style of play, no one at the pro level ever really argues about which is better, only occasionally over where Xball is better than 7 man. Whether that is because they prefer the ramping, the fields, the format, who knows!!

 

[Matski]

Ben - I stayed away from the NXL simply because you can't compare the merits of ramping between the two, within this argument, very well. The structure and format of NXL games is entirely different and having FA may well open up new things - I don't argue against that.
It just seems that some people are of the opinion that ramping is helping to move the sport forward in terms of 'new skills' across all leagues, on a macro level. This isn't the case if you look at how some pro teams were playing a few years ago in the MS (when a lot of US teams actually attended) and NPPL. In the long-term, like you say we are yet to see..

 

[Ben Frain]

In that case Matski, Good Sir, I feel we probably agree on the lion's share of the various issues

 

[Missy Q]

I agree too!
don't leave Missy out of the love-fest!
That is, so long as we are all agreeing that people like ramping because they suck. Reading between the lines, I think it is generally accepted that ramping is simply a crotch for people that suck to lean on so that they at least appear to have better gun skills, without the mundane chore of having to develop them in the 'old skool' way, by learning to actually fire fast without insurance, sorry, I meant assistance...
Good luck to them, thats what I say. Perhaps it might be deemed 'cool' next season to be allowed to employ 'runners' on the break, so that you don't have to be a quick runner either. If your 'runner' makes it to your bunker, and tags you, then you can start shooting your gun, from the safety of your bunker, without getting out of breath or risking the 'sting' of a paintball actually hitting you. Genius!
After that, we could work on clear bunkers. How much simpler would it be to make moves if you actually know which direction your opponents are facing? It would literally take 75% of the risk out of run-through's, keeping people that suck in the game for far longer. Wouldn't it be great to get all these things done? Lets see teams like XSV and Dynasty try beating us then! Huh Guys? Huh? Lets see them try that!
We could then start a new clothing brand:
'We Keep Suckers Alive', or 'WKSA'. The strap-line could be "Make Your Own Rules"
I think we're really onto something here.....

 

[ollytheosteo]

ramping is simply a crotch for people that suck to lean on

Mental picture.......