To ramp or not to ramp...?

[Missy Q]

yes - apples and pairs for sure.

my point, though skillfully hidden, was that people like ramping because they suck. That point has yet to be challenged....
....and thanks for not wanting to debate the skill of pulling the trigger on a trigger operated device. I am as inclined to do that as you are, it would seem.

 

[john251282]

I really don't mind either and train only using semi unless there is a Mill event coming up.

But just to mix this up a little how do you think full auto in NXL has effected the "skill" of paintball. I would say that it can certainly make it very different, for example you can actually crawl up the snkae while still firing at a decent rate, but obviously trying to aim while doing that is a totally new skill. Thoughts?

 

[Matski]

Ben

You really come across as someone who has never been able to do this themselves and therefore has no appreciation of the elements involved.. Like people who watch snooker on tv and say hell I play pool in the pub, snooker is easy money.
To fire 12bps in semi while dry firing in the staging area is easy. However to maintain a consistent line of paint, accurately, while weaving incoming lines of paint and still making your barricade is something that takes a lot of practise to perform to a high level in a game. For a start it takes more upper body strength, and balance both in the upper and lower body to do it at an effective level.
Just because a viewing audience cannot appreciate something, dosn't mean it should be disregarded. You are arguing that something which removes a level of exertion from a sport is productive. Covering it over by saying that "it's not entertaining" dosn't make that stance any less illogical.

 

[Ben Frain]

You really come across as someone who has never been able to do this themselves and therefore has no appreciation of the elements involved.. Like people who watch snooker on tv and say hell I play pool in the pub, snooker is easy money.
To fire 12bps in semi while dry firing in the staging area is easy. However to maintain a consistent line of paint, accurately, while weaving incoming lines of paint and still making your barricade is something that takes a lot of practise to perform to a high level in a game. For a start it takes more upper body strength, and balance both in the upper and lower body to do it at an effective level.
Just because a viewing audience cannot appreciate something, dosn't mean it should be disregarded. You are arguing that something which removes a level of exertion from a sport is productive. Covering it over by saying that "it's not entertaining" dosn't make that stance any less illogical.

Matski, I am afraid you are incorrect on both counts. Although I by no means play at the upper level of the game I was certainly the fastest on the trigger in our team in semi. Because of that I was also one of the first to grumble that all my trigger practice had gone to waste due to ramping.

And to reiterate this point once more - I am not in any way saying it isn't a skill. You are completely missing the point. My point (to counter your final paragraph) is that as one door shuts another door opens. As john251282 has illustrated - what about things, that are possible in ramping/FA that simply aren't with semi? Ramping and capped auto (NXL) change the game and the skills necassary to win. That doesn't necassarily make them any better or worse than semi though; just different. You may loose finger wiggling but you gain better timing necassary to get through/past the greater volume of paint for example.

However, the crunch for me, and why ramping or capped FA is the only really viable option at present is enforcement. SEMI can simply NOT be policed. There is currently no piece of equipment able to police it.

Ultimately therefore, when the options are

a) skill sets including fast shooting and the guise that everyone is shooting semi
b) no skill set including fast shooting as everyones marker is doing the same

I favour option B as I am happier to win or lose on the basis that the only factors that could have seperated me from the opposistion are the skill levels of the participants.

 

[Tricky]

I suppose at least with ramping you don't have to contend with sadistic chrono judges not letting you take a gun on the field because it adds one shot when you faff about with the trigger for half an hour.

 

[Mario]

I suppose at least with ramping you don't have to contend with sadistic chrono judges not letting you take a gun on the field because it adds one shot when you faff about with the trigger for half an hour.

debatable...

 

[Robeenio]

i play both semi and ramp tournaments

im good on both my hands although i am slightly better on my right.

ramping negates the fact that i have to think about twidling my fingers and lets me concentrate on reading paint, seeing who i can help, seeing what moves i can make or bullying the other person who's shooting at me

which correct me if im wrong are other skills that are AS important if not more than shooting fast.

but hey im jabbering about skills here again!

if we are going on to the subject of paintball as a sport then the game needs to be adjusted so there is a focal point like Footballs ball!

only then will it be interseting for people outside of paintball to watch!

 

[MrPink]

debatable...

Esp. if you played the DYE field @ Bitburg

 

[Matski]

Matski, I am afraid you are incorrect on both counts. Although I by no means play at the upper level of the game I was certainly the fastest on the trigger in our team in semi. Because of that I was also one of the first to grumble that all my trigger practice had gone to waste due to ramping.

And to reiterate this point once more - I am not in any way saying it isn't a skill. You are completely missing the point. My point (to counter your final paragraph) is that as one door shuts another door opens. As john251282 has illustrated - what about things, that are possible in ramping/FA that simply aren't with semi? Ramping and capped auto (NXL) change the game and the skills necassary to win. That doesn't necassarily make them any better or worse than semi though; just different. You may loose finger wiggling but you gain better timing necassary to get through/past the greater volume of paint for example.
QUOTE]

I don't miss the point that ramping changes the dynamics of the game. This whole idea that it allows players to think about 'more important' aspects of the game though, such as timing moves, is bullsh!t as it only applies to the lower level or as Missy suggests 'suckers'.
Before ramping was the norm, in pro games you would have players on both sides laying heavy lanes of paint AND having to time moves just the same AND there were nearly half the number of barricades we see on fields today (certainly at MS events) making some moves even more difficult (against skilled opponents). Like I say, unless you have experienced something it's hard to understand the actual elements involved. Some things ARE possible with semi if players have trained enough, ramping simply opens the possibilities to the slobbering masses.
Sick Psycho for example says that ramping lets him focus elsewhere, why should it?? If a player can't think about multiple things at once then tough...learn..that's what seperates the good players from the punks.

I agree that the whole board-cheat issue makes ramping favourable from the angle of fairness (sadly), don't get me wrong, but Missy is still bang on in saying only suckers love ramping. Infact you'll find players who can perform without it are indifferent to it; dosn't add to or take from the game, for them - see Mario's earlier post.

 

[Ben Frain]

I'm not sure if we are actually agreeing now or not, even though we appear not to!

Matski - the same things can certainly be achieved with semi with enough practice, however, I would rather peoples time went into the development of other skills than trigger wiggling. As I don't (rightly or wrongly) hold fast fingers with much athletic regard I think on a longer timeline the negation of this skill imposed by ramping will lead to a more athletic (in my definition of the term) 'sport'.

In fairness and with no disrespect to you or Mario we would probably do better to elevate the playing level to the upper levels (Lang, Lasoya etc) for a fairer appraisal of the merits or not on the paintball skill sets due to ramping/FA. I just feel that anyone not playing NXL and Pro NPPL hasn't experienced enough of both (and be good enough players) to offer any conclusive evidence one way or the other. I take it you Matski, like I, have only experienced ramping domestically (e.g. PA) or at Millennium events (although their ramping modes have always seemed a little backward to me anyway)?