The Glory Boy Sweepstakes

[duffistuta]

Originally posted by fred1
Why would the US teams wait for Joy or Nexus to pull out of NPPL before offering deals to some of their players? Or have these players already received offers that they turned down?

Who's to say they've waited? I was referring more to the players' loyalties..i.e. they want to play in the NPPL with their own teams, and at the moment they are. Should their own teams pull out, however, and someone offers them the chance to play at every NPPL event...

 

[Missy Q]

Nick, it aint so incognito when some dumb fxxx traps off about it on a public forum is it, ya moron!

I was asked about values. I answered. So don't talk to me about bad taste fxxxer.

oh, and this:

You give me the same budget any of the top 5-6 US Pro teams has, and I'll easily build a European contender that finishes in the top 5 every time, in under a year!

....is making you look stupid.

Half the rest of your post is equally mis-informed, as pointed out by others.
You talk **** mate, you really do. If I want to be incognito you should respect it, as others do. I have my reasons, and like many things in paintball, you obviously don't understand them.

Nick - You Suck!

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

Well - then stick to general comments - if you want to preserve your anonymity - instead of trying to promote the business you work for.

And YES - I decidedly mentioned where you work, BECAUSE you used your incognito status to promote the business you work for..... seemingly unbiased.... otherwise there would have been no need to do so... I've known who you are since after a couple of days after you came on here.

At any rate - I'm not the one who "outed" you - someone else did months ago.... but you might not have noticed at the time?

You may think I suck - that's absolutely your prerogative... put please tell me where in my post I am misinformed or wrong?

Nick

 

[TJ Lambini]

I turn my back for five minutes...

OK, before anyone goes thinking it's a democracy round here, I will make a few things clear.

Anonymity is any and all posters right as far as we is concerned. There are some very big fish who post under various names here, and we are happy about that. K? K...

As for tha 'stick to general comments' line Nick, that is horse****. Plenty of anonymous folks promote their own team/product/sponsor in various subtle and unsubtle ways. It is OUR call when people cross tha line, not yours.

Missy - or anyone else - can post what they want and posters can choose how much credence they want to give an anonymous poster on a website. That is their perogative. You are not some sort of caped crusader who decides to bust people because you think they are leading poor innocents astray...we like to let folk make their own minds up given tha nature of the posts.

If someone reads a web post by Missy Q and thinks, '**** I gots to go and get me an NPPL Pro spot this second cos of what that internet black lady said, so I'm selling my trailer, putting my wife on the game and getting 150k together', then good. That's one more idiot who will die lonely and destitute. K? K...

I trust I have made myself eminently clear.

J. Edgar Hoover.


****, I mean TJ Lambini.

Note to self: Try not to bust one's own secret identity next time...

 

[Missy Q]

As for US teams cherry picking from the Euro teams - I don't really see that happening.... They would have done that a long time ago if they were interested - any Euro player would jump at the chance to play with a US Pro team.

You contradict yourself. Nexus players and Joy players will continue to play in the NPPL if their tams did not. Any other outstanding new player will be noticed, and as you pointed out, will jump at the chance of playing with the big boys.

Well - then stick to general comments - if you want to preserve your anonymity - instead of trying to promote the business you work for.

I am careful not to promote the company I work for Nick. Your poor understanding of the PP/WDP relationship is preventing you from making a sensible comment about it. If you want to sound knowledgable, stick to things you know about.

So, the point is... we don't lack talent on Euro Pro teams.... we're just not MORE talented than the US players - and when you add "budget" to the mix (which translates into more practice and more events), the US teams win out at more or less every event.

thats your point? Its rubbish! there is much more talent in the US. You could go down to SC Village any given weekend and pick out a team of players (that don't play pro), and have them beat your team 9 times out of 10. There are hundreds of kids trying to get on pro teams. Euro teams would take them all day long. Also, you don't base your budget talk on anything. You just assume that the US teams have a bigger budget. While this may be true in some cases, it is a sweeping and incorrect statement. US teams often have 'benefactors' rather than 'sponsors' that foot the bills, often the team owners/captains. Avalanche don't even have a paint sponsor. They are ranked 3rd, so definitely in the top 5-6 you mention.

You give me the same budget any of the top 5-6 US Pro teams has, and I'll easily build a European contender that finishes in the top 5 every time, in under a year!

Garbage. Firstly you don't know the budget of the top 6. You also presume that all the top 6 have good budgets. You also presume way too much of yourself. If Robbo can't do it in 2 years with the effort he put in, why do you think you can do it in 1, from Denmark, from a standing start. I estimate Robbo's budget to be higher than 2 teams in the top 6 already. This takes you back to talent, which was another of your incorrect generalisations. I also judge Pete's ability to be able to acheive success to be higher than yours, due to his career record. I mean, I know you won that one MS event back in the day, but....

Diminishing talent pool? - Hmm - as said I don't think it will happen, but even if it did, there is not a damn thing a Euro Pro team can do about it, as long as their US counterparts have budgets that are 5-10 times as big.

You are at it again. Take XSV and Dynasty out and look again. Better yet, if you want things to be read as fact, do some research.

Team value. - *COUGH* - no offence...... but being an employee of WDP - and not disclosing it when you write about $ values on NPPL franchises, I find in poor taste. - Quite obviously it is in the best interest of the organisation you belong to (yeah yeah - bla bla bla - "Pure Promotions is not WDP" - bla bla bla ), to give people the impression that a "franchise" in the NPPL is worth a lot - because that lends value to the league and the whole concept of it..... but I think you should refrain from writing stuff like that when using your incognito alter ego.

I answered a question asked by someone who knew who I was. I answered honestly. I won't have my integrity challenged by you Nick. You can apologise if you wish. If you don't I will continue to hold you in the lowest regard.
Look up 'Franchise'. Note the differences.

As for the Russians - they have never ever picked up a single seasoned Pro player for the team - and that is the reason they don't win everything - yet.

Wrong. They have been experimenting with other players all season and used Fabrice to great effect in Chicago.

Their ONE drawback is that their players are comperatively inexperienced in event play.... before joining the NXL, their russian players played 5-6 events outside Russia per year - no more.

What European team has more experience than these guys? They have plenty of event experience. They played NPPL events, Millennium events and PSP events. They travelled to the US and scrimmaged against other Pro teams and I think their preparation for the NXL was superior to any other team. If you think the Russians have a disadvantage due to experience you are wrong. I don't recognise half the players in the NXL anymore. The Russian players are comparative veterans.

If you moved Dynasty to Moscow, and put them through the RL regime for 6 months, you would have a team that nobody could beat - in any format - ever.

Back that up. In fact, don't bother, you can't, and nor could anyone else. Getting Dynasty to change their game and play the russian system could even do more harm than good. Fact is no-one knows, so no-one can make the 'statement' you made.

Point is, that nobody should dispute the talent in the RL roster... but experience is just as important a factor in paintball, because gunfights are just as often won with brains/experience as with pure skill.... And experience is where they are still lacking - although they are evidently catching up very fast.

Another crap point. However, if by 'catching up fast' you mean 'kicking the crap out of people and way ahead of the pack'. then you are totally correct.

Happy now?

Nick - You suck!!!

 

[Baca Loco]

Originally posted by Missy Q
1--Steve - re. your point earlier. I think European teams will welcome a decent series where Pro's play Pro's in Europe.

2--I do not think the Euro teams will 'opt out' of the NPPL as a wholesale movement though. If only one team stayed, that team would get advantages over thier house-bound relatives, and that carrot is too big to refuse.

3-- and the NPPL teams still wanting to come over to Europe to take home the money,

4--Re the value of teams. If the whole job wasn't on the floor at the moment I would say the going rate for a bottom of the table spot is around $150,000. As it stands with the current situation, I have heard values as low as $60,000 being offered.

5--I think thats a steal, in fact I think a Bernie Ecclestone type should buy up 4 or 5 spots on the NPPL as an investment.

6--Baca, I think you are underestimating the talent pool of he Russians. All teams train hard. The russians train harder, sure, but if they were not equally talented they would not stand a chance.

7--Currently I do not see teams in the US that would be prepared to suffer the Russian regimen in order to get better. far too uncomfortable for them, not as 'cool' etc...

While the Maestro is scolding Nick--if that really is Nick Broccoli-dwarf--and who is N B-D anyway?--I thought I'd take a moment to offer an alternative response. One that has the advantage of being generally acceptable and fun.

1--Does that mean you are in favor of the Euro teams playing the MS Champions League as even next year the NPPL won't have a Euro series?

2--Could you elaborate on those advantages please?

3--Just like they are doing this year? Let's see, that would be XSV and ..., hang on, I'll come up with more, there's .. um... no, wait--

4--How can you think the going rate at the bottom is 150K and in the next sentence say you've heard of offers at 60K? And if it really is 150K what does that 150K get you?

5--Does that mean you know of 4 or 5 positions in jeopardy currently? Do they include any of the Euros? And if nobody else picks them up would that leave the league in the position of having to bolster itself temporarily?

6--so that means if top US teams trained as hard and effectively as the RL they wouldn't be any better than the RL? In which case doesn't that essentially invalidate the usual claims made for the RL's methods?

7--Doh, kinda of my point in the first place.

Feel free to pretend not to understand any questions that make you too uncomfortable or claim ignorance where giving an answer might be imprudent. It's okay, this was just a demonstration for our pal Nick anyway.

 

[Robbo]

Cooooool, just seen this, a thread of real animosity and acrimony between some of the big hitters of the site and I ain't nowhere near it


Wooo hooo, begin feeding on each other's flesh and I'm gonna go grab the popcorn and coke

 

[Missy Q]

1--Does that mean you are in favor of the Euro teams playing the MS Champions League as even next year the NPPL won't have a Euro series?

Am I in favor of it? Sure, but I don't have that much of an interest in it, and therin lies the problem.

2--Could you elaborate on those advantages please?

I believe that if 4 euro-teams went to a euro league, and one remained behind (eg JD), that JD would benefit by better competition and playing in a league with a higher skill-level, thus making them a stronger team through playing stronger opposition (I see this particular theory as valid). When these teams met I think JD would win.

3--Just like they are doing this year? Let's see, that would be XSV and ..., hang on, I'll come up with more, there's .. um... no, wait--


Let me help you out. Dynasty, XSV and Arsenal have all travelled to Europe this year, as have several hired US guns. I think the Bushwackers made it over too. They also took the money home, which was my point...

4--How can you think the going rate at the bottom is 150K and in the next sentence say you've heard of offers at 60K? And if it really is 150K what does that 150K get you?

How can I think this? Well, I suppose it is based on talking to the captains, asking what they believe the value of thier teams to be, knowing about a deal currently in the offing, and basically having an interest in such things to the extent where I enjoy placing estimated (yet reasonably informed) values on the spots. You may have different figures in your head, but that would be what 'you' think, and therefore not relevant to your question.

5--Does that mean you know of 4 or 5 positions in jeopardy currently? Do they include any of the Euros? And if nobody else picks them up would that leave the league in the position of having to bolster itself temporarily?


No, thats not what I mean. What I mean is that if the industry is in a slump, and an investor believed that it was going to recover, then buying now would be a good idea. The same way that buying real estate in Beruit is a clever idea right now. And no, I am not making a direct comparison between the NPPL and the ongoing middle eastern crisis

6--so that means if top US teams trained as hard and effectively as the RL they wouldn't be any better than the RL? In which case doesn't that essentially invalidate the usual claims made for the RL's methods?

If they did, then sure. My doubts hinge on the willingness of the US teams to do so.

7--Doh, kinda of my point in the first place.

and yet you still asked question number 6....

"Feel free to pretend not to understand any questions that make you too uncomfortable or claim ignorance where giving an answer might be imprudent. It's okay, this was just a demonstration for our pal Nick anyway."

this much I knew already. You have the advantage of being better informed than Nick, and in having English as your first language, however, I haven't ducked a question, so the snyde stuff can take a back seat.

Nick Sucks!

 

[Gyroscope]

Originally posted by Missy Q

Let me help you out. Dynasty, XSV and Arsenal have all travelled to Europe this year, as have several hired US guns. I think the Bushwackers made it over too. They also took the money home, which was my point...

Somehow, I don't think that they brought home enough to make winning a Millenium event a reasoned business decision. As I understand it, it is more expensive to go play a Millenium event than what you would recoup winning pro. So XSV must be going to Europe for the culture.

What I don't get is that even among European teams, there is no relative parity. I mean, if the Americans stayed home, and the Europeans stayed home, wouldn't the end of the year rankings be Russian Legion, Joy Division, Nexus? Why aren't the Copenhagen Ducks and the Ton Tons contending? Is it down to budget or is there a language barrier that keeps teams from stealing players? Is the only reason for Russian excellence Russian sado-masochism?

 

[Missy Q]

True Gyro, but they didn't leave the money here either for the Euro teams to win.
Euro teams pay the money
Yank teams win it. Its a standing joke and one that has been told for the last 4 years or more.

A Euro league that excludes US teams is weak and, at present, less interesting.
One that allows US teams opens the door for 1st and 2nd to be taken at will by yanks.
The Euro teams don't get a lot better (theoritically) because they are only playing each other for the rest of the year, so the yanks keep coming over for the easy steal. They can make it pay if they get the flights at the right money, and only take 7 guys, or even just take 5 and pick up a couple of top euro players who would rather play for them and win than be also-rans.