Oooooh!! Dynasty FA Scandal!!

[TJ Lambini]

Originally posted by manike



As long as we keep some level of control on 'cheater' boards I don't think sustainable (and that's the key) rof will get much higher, but max rof (say between two shots) will get faster and faster.

Nope, the key is the 'keep' bit -we blatantly ain't keeping a level of control and as has been said before, while some teams have undetectable cheat boards they have an intrinsic advantage. And without a level playing field you have no sport, ergo until we sort this situation out Paintball is, quite simply, not a sport.

 

[manike]

How do you know we aren't keeping a level of control? If you can't catch the people who are doing it, how do you know how many people are getting away with it?

I know for a fact that some people that were using 'naughtier' methods to get higher rof's are no longer doing it with the advent of more tests and the Robot.

I know of 4 people who at HB purposely changed out boards from their guns.

I know of a lot of people that don't cheat their debounce like they used to because the refs are more aware of how to do it.

I also know that a lot of people who are accused of having dodgy stuff, don't. And that designer cheats are not as common as many would have you think (they are out there though).

Here's a question for you all.

Would it be better to make methods of how to cheat widely known so that all judges can look for them and know how to catch them? or better to keep the methods quiet so less people are tempted to use them and get away with them when they can?

It's something I've thought about a lot and I don't have a set idea on which would be best.

How about a judges forum with 'known' cheats to look out for?

 

[Ben Frain]

Originally posted by manike
How do you know we aren't keeping a level of control? If you can't catch the people who are doing it, how do you know how many people are getting away with it?

I know for a fact that some people that were using 'naughtier' methods to get higher rof's are no longer doing it with the advent of more tests and the Robot.

I know of 4 people who at HB purposely changed out boards from their guns.

I know of a lot of people that don't cheat their debounce like they used to because the refs are more aware of how to do it.

I also know that a lot of people who are accused of having dodgy stuff, don't. And that designer cheats are not as common as many would have you think (they are out there though).

Here's a question for you all.

Would it be better to make methods of how to cheat widely known so that all judges can look for them and know how to catch them? or better to keep the methods quiet so less people are tempted to use them and get away with them when they can?

It's something I've thought about a lot and I don't have a set idea on which would be best.

How about a judges forum with 'known' cheats to look out for?

Manike, I realise you may not be here in your 'daytime' capacity but as you have distinct expertise in this capacity could you answer the following.

Realistically, maybe not this year but say 12 months away, how difficult would it be for manufacturers (perhaps a 'coalition' of manufacturers) to start producing all boards with 'tamper proof' authenticated seals? No authenticated seal on your marker, no play.

These could then be checked at the beginning of tournaments.

More info about this back on page 6 I think...Or is it realistically pie in the sky for manufacturers to adopt this kind of thing?

 

[shamu]

As an NPPL head ref, you're damn right I want to know more about how cheats are used, activated and enabled. I have a pretty good knowledge about cheats, but there's always something new to learn.

I think this is the only way we're going to reduce the number of gun cheats: educate the judges on how to test for cheats (or have a qualified scrutineer to test) and enforce penalties that are so nasty teams would rather not risk the penalty.

Public knowledge of how to program cheats? I hate the thought of some kid in a young guns event with a machine gat, but I think public knowledge is necessary. The players that want to cheat their guns can already find a lot of this information on the internet (granted some of it is BS), so all you're doing is making it more common knowledge.

Thumbing the cocking rod on an Autococker was a "professional" cheat back in the 90's. Once it became common knowledge, people knew to look for it until it stopped being a viable cheat (OK, beaver tails helped too )

 

[manike]

Originally posted by Ben Frain
Realistically, maybe not this year but say 12 months away, how difficult would it be for manufacturers (perhaps a 'coalition' of manufacturers) to start producing all boards with 'tamper proof' authenticated seals? No authenticated seal on your marker, no play.

These could then be checked at the beginning of tournaments.

More info about this back on page 6 I think...Or is it realistically pie in the sky for manufacturers to adopt this kind of thing?

Oh we could adopt it. It could be done. WDP kind of do it already.

It won't make one single iota of difference though.

I can't help but think outside the box and it's such an easy thing to cheat it wouldn't be worth the cost of trying to implement it as a standard. And it doesn't solve the majority or ways people cheat right now. People are cheating with 'legal' boards to get illegal rof and help. How will a tamper proof board stop that?

Just look at the number of people that weren't using the WDP tamperproof board in their guns last year... did it raise any suspicion? Did anyone realise what could be done with a three position switch and a WAS board? It's a legal board... it's the people using it that were cheats (under certain circumstances, not all by any means).

Could anyone who can currently make cheater boards make one that looks like it wasn't 'tampered' with at first glance? yes easily. (and probably after scrutiny also).

I think we need to:-

1) make safe guns where people aren't going to lose an eye in the safety zone due to a superlight/sensitive trigger.

2) Try and keep an eye on designer cheats with well trained and educated people.

3) Bust the idiots who are cheating on purpose with more 'standard' means.

4) And then protect the people that aren't purposely trying to be arseholes but are maybe a bit close to the line and just want to play the game.

I also think that's the only things we really have any chance of doing.

 

[Steve Morris]

Originally posted by manike
Oh we could adopt it. It could be done. WDP kind of do it already.

It won't make one single iota of difference though.

I can't help but think outside the box and it's such an easy thing to cheat it wouldn't be worth the cost of trying to implement it as a standard. And it doesn't solve the majority or ways people cheat right now. People are cheating with 'legal' boards to get illegal rof and help. How will a tamper proof board stop that?

Just look at the number of people that weren't using the WDP tamperproof board in their guns last year... did it raise any suspicion? Did anyone realise what could be done with a three position switch and a WAS board? It's a legal board... it's the people using it that were cheats (under certain circumstances, not all by any means).

Could anyone who can currently make cheater boards make one that looks like it wasn't 'tampered' with at first glance? yes easily. (and probably after scrutiny also).

I think we need to:-

1) make safe guns where people aren't going to lose an eye in the safety zone due to a superlight/sensitive trigger.

2) Try and keep an eye on designer cheats with well trained and educated people.

3) Bust the idiots who are cheating on purpose with more 'standard' means.

4) And then protect the people that aren't purposely trying to be arseholes but are maybe a bit close to the line and just want to play the game.

I also think that's the only things we really have any chance of doing.

Simon,

I really appreciate what you've said and the authority that's behind it based on your experience and expertise. You spell out exactly what I think about this matter.

We have just a couple of weeks to improve our rules and our procedures before Camp Masters. I would definitely be thankful for suggestions on exactly what we could do with the limited resources we have. I doubt we will have the robot by then.

Thanks in advance,

Steve

 

[shortygermany]

Hehe Steve i only say one thing:

Keep that Crono Ref from the Draxxus Field at the MEM finals.

 

[beasty1711]

Originally posted by manike
I don't think sustainable (and that's the key) rof will get much higher, but max rof (say between two shots) will get faster and faster.

arnt those two rof's the same?

 

[manike]

Originally posted by beasty1711
arnt those two rof's the same?

Nope. No where near.

 

[Ben Frain]

OK, well, thanks for the reply all the same.