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Okay, on this whole reunification thing...

BlitZZkrieg Mueller

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Aug 30, 2004
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hmmm, ...

the bottomline of where we are right now, might be, ...

1. from the sponsors perspective there isnt enough money to be made at (and after) the events by heavily sponsoring 2 or (with europe) 3 series

2. from the players side it might be difficult to focus on 2 (3) different formats, having no unified rules, no unified marshalling, ...

3. from the media side (the one which might be the most important, because it will attract outside paintball sponsors) it is still too confusing which series to focus on, ...

... IF this gets sorted out for the future, paintball will benefit and being THE extremesports thing for the next couple of years, IF not it will stay as it is


... or may be I am absolutly wrong with it all we will see...
 

SteveD

Getting Up Again
bigboyola,

scoring system NOT at all like x-ball

stopping play for penalties only involved one issue and that's the reset; we have it worked out, works just fine.

too early in the morning for more right now (team meeting and team practice coming up, just picked the final roster for Miami, so I'm gonna have a lot of ego bs to deal with in a couple of hours.

Later all.
 

Gyroscope

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Wow. Well, money talks. When it is all saying the same thing, something is likely to happen.

I have to say I'm a little surprised that Richmond is angling for reunification... he must be confident that Xball will survive in some form. I wish I were still playing World Cup... it would be a shame to miss it if Xball did fall by the wayside.

I just hope we aren't back to playing on gravel and sharing half a dozen toilets by this time next year. I had already noticed some slip in PP's ability to manage the scale of events this year. I find it ironic that so many players are trying to play nationally while the industry is having such a difficult time.
 

Chicago

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IF the leagues unify, the first thing you can expect is higher entry fees, and a lot fewer spots for people to play.

What are they going to do about ID systems? I don't see NPPL giving up on their membership program, but it would be a shame to lose APPA since its the only one that actually tracks players.

And then there's the format question - 7-man does schedule a lot of people in a given timeframe. And it's "easy" for the teams who play national events as an excuse to party. NPPL offers a lot of stuff for a certain group of players that PSP doesn't, and vice versa, and I don't see how either wins with one league.
 

Nick Brockdorff

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Jul 9, 2001
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The Millennium will then HAVE TO jump on board the unified bandwagon and all the piddly little details that so many people seem to get so strung out on can get sorted out afterwards.
I honestly don't really see why we need to?

If PP and PSP end up with a compromise and a format the majority of Europeans feel is "stupid" - why on earth would we back it?

It's not like the paintball industry will stop marketing itself in Europe, just because the major European cirquit is not part of the major US one.... Europe is an altogether different market, and European events will still get the same number of teams, the same media exposure and the same sponsorships..... in fact, if the US leagues unify, it will free up budget for all the companies that want a bigger presence in Europe, but have so far not been able to find the budget for it.

I firmly believe we should in Europe focus on making a format that is "right" for media, players, logistics, etc. - and not give a damn about all the politics involved with the unifications talks in the US.

How many european teams does it REALLY concern what happens with the NPPL, the PSP or the NXL - except for mild curiosity? - 4-5??

I understand it concerns you Pete - and Laurent, and Sergey, and Magued - and a few others.... for obvious reasons..... but for european paintball as a whole? - I don't see it?!

Where exactly is the benefit for European paintball in being part of a unified league?

Obviously - if PP and PSP come up with something ingenious (and I hope they do) - there is no real reason for us to turn it down either.... but people should realise that unification is not all that important to the european teams at this stage.

It might be in 1 or 2 years - but right now - I am yet to hear a valid argument for it being important to us?

Let's not - once again - jump onboard with something that we are not really all that sure will work - that is hastily put together and decided upon... we did that at the start of last year, and it proved to be the wrong decision.

I for one call on the principals of the MS to keep a cool head, and possibly enter into dialogue with the european player base on what WE want, before making any rash decisions.

Nick
 

Robbo

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Jul 5, 2001
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Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
I honestly don't really see why we need to?

If PP and PSP end up with a compromise and a format the majority of Europeans feel is "stupid" - why on earth would we back it?

It's not like the paintball industry will stop marketing itself in Europe, just because the major European cirquit is not part of the major US one.... Europe is an altogether different market, and European events will still get the same number of teams, the same media exposure and the same sponsorships..... in fact, if the US leagues unify, it will free up budget for all the companies that want a bigger presence in Europe, but have so far not been able to find the budget for it.

I firmly believe we should in Europe focus on making a format that is "right" for media, players, logistics, etc. - and not give a damn about all the politics involved with the unifications talks in the US.

How many european teams does it REALLY concern what happens with the NPPL, the PSP or the NXL - except for mild curiosity? - 4-5??

I understand it concerns you Pete - and Laurent, and Sergey, and Magued - and a few others.... for obvious reasons..... but for european paintball as a whole? - I don't see it?!

Where exactly is the benefit for European paintball in being part of a unified league?

Obviously - if PP and PSP come up with something ingenious (and I hope they do) - there is no real reason for us to turn it down either.... but people should realise that unification is not all that important to the european teams at this stage.

It might be in 1 or 2 years - but right now - I am yet to hear a valid argument for it being important to us?

Let's not - once again - jump onboard with something that we are not really all that sure will work - that is hastily put together and decided upon... we did that at the start of last year, and it proved to be the wrong decision.

I for one call on the principals of the MS to keep a cool head, and possibly enter into dialogue with the european player base on what WE want, before making any rash decisions.

Nick
Nick, in the sense you imply, this is not self interest on my part affecting my opinion because if you think about it; it matters not what the Millennium does for Nexus and Joy (and maybe Ton Tons and Tigers) because I will probably be playing in whatever comes out the end of any unification talks between the PSP and NPPL.
And this pretty much looks like some sort of World Paintball League based upon the existing NPPL pro league, and therefore I won’t be playing in the Millennium.
And so the Millennium’s decision is academic to me in that sense.

My concern is for Europe and closer to home, UK Ball.
I think if we do not align ourselves at the front end of this opportunity (if it happens) then all it does is put us even further behind the world scene and thus makes it even harder to evolve.
We cannot evolve as a stand alone nation !
One of the major re-shapes for next season being considered by the Millennium was adopting XBall Lite and this was just one part of a radical overhaul in the way these guys did things.
I think Baldwin, Niall, Laurent, Manfred and even Pedro have all had a wake up call and responded well to the changing environment of tourney ball and its consequent demands.
But if we go it alone and adopt differing formats, rules and book of requirements (standards of tournaments) then it would be disastrous to turn our backs on the rest of the world, or more accurately, the US.

As things stand right now, I agree with you in it not affecting that many teams but that’s because of the many disparities that affect Euro teams in regard to their Yank counterparts but Nick, we need to think past next week mate, we need to align now and not have to play catch up in two years time when conditions change more favorably toward Euro teams maturing into international animals.
There has to be a route for teams like yourselves, Menace etc who are at the top of the Euro pile to progress if they nail the required sponsor package.
I know you Nick, and I know Christian pretty well, both of you are highly competitive and it would serve no purpose whatsoever to big a big fish in a small pond when the call of the real competition and real validation would be just a matter of stepping up.
This option would not be possible if we do not align now.
 

Red Ring Inflictor

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Besides that, world paintball will likely become a whole lot more than just USA and Europe in the not too distant future.

Standardization is desirable and, not only that, almost necessary. We just have to hope some sensible minds are involved in this all the way through and that petty egos are laid aside in the interest of the whole shabang.
 

Nick Brockdorff

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Well - standardization is fine - if the standard is good.

If it isn't, we might just set a higher one on our own.

Anyway - that is theory.

I appreciate you taking your time to write that long answer Pete, and I know you are not being selfish......but I still fail to see what it is exactly we will be missing out on and how it is we fall behind, by the MS not being part of a unified league?

You write we'll have a hard time evolving and that we'll be playing catch up if we do not allign ourselves..... but I just don't see it.

- Why will it be difficult to evolve?
- What exactly are the benefits of being part of this unification?
- Will European teams get better budgets?
- Will European teams have an easier time participating in this new unified league?
- Will euro paintball change to the better by being part of the unification?

I think you - and a lot of other people are liking the concept, because you are close to many of the principals.... but I honestly don't see it benefit european paintball in any major way.

I might be wrong - and would dearly like for someone to give me some examples of the benefits derived from european paintball being involved with the 2 big US leagues unifying.

nick
 
D

duffistuta

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Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
Well - standardization is fine - if the standard is good.

If it isn't, we might just set a higher one on our own.

Anyway - that is theory.

I appreciate you taking your time to write that long answer Pete, and I know you are not being selfish......but I still fail to see what it is exactly we will be missing out on and how it is we fall behind, by the MS not being part of a unified league?

You write we'll have a hard time evolving and that we'll be playing catch up if we do not allign ourselves..... but I just don't see it.

- Why will it be difficult to evolve?
- What exactly are the benefits of being part of this unification?
- Will European teams get better budgets?
- Will European teams have an easier time participating in this new unified league?
- Will euro paintball change to the better by being part of the unification?

I think you - and a lot of other people are liking the concept, because you are close to many of the principals.... but I honestly don't see it benefit european paintball in any major way.

I might be wrong - and would dearly like for someone to give me some examples of the benefits derived from european paintball being involved with the 2 big US leagues unifying.

nick
Well the very obvious starter for 10 is that you will get a huge influx of US teams. All the big boys will be playing 50% fewer US events, and if Mill. is part of the WPL and some of their events are part of a world series, you're going to see a dozen or so top Pros coming over.

Plus, it might mean Euros only have to play 3 US events to get 5 scores to go toward your end of season ranking - there's a place on the world stage at a smaller cost right there...which has its own sponsor benefits.