Okay, on this whole reunification thing...

[Robbo]

One point to ponder is this, could the PSP merge with the NPPL without the Gardners?

With Jerry now trying to sell up his NXL interests (team and spot) the only real stumbling blocks seem to be Billy and Adam and any terms they may wish to impose on any integration.

That said, the momentum building up behind the two leagues may well be too much for the Gardners to stem and could well leave them out on a limb when push comes to shove.

Interesting situation building maybes if you consider the Gardners out on a limb and maybe 100 or so XBall teams being unserviced because any integrated league ain't gonna be playing 5 man XBall, leastwise not in its first season......

The possibilities seem....well.......interesting.....

 

[BigbOYALA2]

My question is...where does the format fit into this? There's no denying XBall is not only a better format, but here to stay. Thousands of players would be absolutely outraged if the leagues merged and got rid of XBall, not to mention that 7man is almost undeniably an inferior format Television-wise. It would seem to me that the leagues would need a middle ground of the NPPL's organization/spectacle/reliablity and the PSP's XBall format and player-driven atmosphere. Unfortunately, I simply cannot imagine this happening anywhere in the near future.

 

[Missy Q]

What Up Bigboy!

My question is...where does the format fit into this?

Obviously one of THE key questions in the case of a merger.

There's no denying XBall is not only a better format, but here to stay. Thousands of players would be absolutely outraged if the leagues merged and got rid of XBall, not to mention that 7man is almost undeniably an inferior format Television-wise.

I disagree. The European players also said it was 'here to stay'. Nick was threatening to slit his wrists if Euro X-ball was 'got rid of', but it didn't work out. It didn't work because it was too expensive to play and to attend events with double the players. All costs doubled, paint, flights, hotels, hire cars, food, everything.
While your loyalty to the format is admirable (as was Nicks'), I think it may be time to wake up and smell the rather cost prohibitive coffee.

I also think it has yet to be proved that X-ball is THE TV format. There is little other than opinion to back this statement up. If proof were required either way then the existing X-ball TV show would have to be mentioned, and that would not help your argument one bit. One the one hand, there are players that still believe in the format. I would argue that there are now more players that do not.
The other, and more valid argument is that the X-ball format is not the PSP's. It is a patented format that wouldn't be able to be used anyway. Don't think PSP and Xball are one entity. They are not. Should the PSP and NPPL merge then this would not mean that the X-ball format could be used anyway, at least not without the consent of Richmond. Consent that would doubtless come at a price, and not necessarily a monetary one...

It would seem to me that the leagues would need a middle ground of the NPPL's organization/spectacle/reliablity and the PSP's XBall format and player-driven atmosphere. Unfortunately, I simply cannot imagine this happening anywhere in the near future.

Again, the format is not the PSP's, and please explain what a 'player driven' atmostphere means. From attending both series all year I have yet to see anything resembling an 'atmostphere' at the PSP events, but plenty of 'atmostphere' at the NPPL gigs. What sort of atmostphere are you refering to? An atmostphere of discontent? I could see how that would be 'player driven'.....

As for this merger happening in the near future, it will either happen in the near future or it will not happen at all. I feel it is best to hope that it does. But thats just me.


Loco - I looked up Starr Jones on the internet to better understand your insult. And as I thought, you are a twat.

 

[Rabies]

There is no TV format. Paintball is about as exciting to watch as competition fly fishing, whatever the format. The only people that will watch for more than 5 minutes are other paintballers and people who have been strapped to their Lay-Z-Boy with duct tape, just out of reach of the remote. Sure, X-Ball gives you the chance to see more movement, more muggings, more refs being bonus-balled, and leaves convenient gaps for commercial breaks. But I can't see the advertisers queueing up to fill slots in a program that nobody wants to watch, any more than we see them now jostling for space on team jerseys.

I thought everybody noticed a couple of years ago that the Emperor has no clothes, but then some doddery old rich bloke commissioned a failure of a pilot and suddenly everyone lost their common sense and even started spending TV money that was never going to arrive. Now Dick's moved on, paintball is still running around with its knackers out, but people still seem to be waiting for that big TV break. What's the deal with that?

 

[Robbo]

The format is not and should not be a stumbling block to integration, it's a detail that needs to be sorted but in this instance, the considerations of the tourney players has to play second fiddle to the requirements of the industry I'm afraid and rightly so.

As for the patent issue re XBall, I'm afraid this is a dead duck, Sergey's lawyers have already investigated this area and found that you cannot patent a format but you can patent the brand and whilst Richmond can rightfully protect his XBall brand, anybody can start up an exact copy of it and call it YBall.
And so the adoption of 'Y'Ball by the NPPL isn't gonna be a real problem if the preference is an XBall 'type' game.
On top of that, I think Richmond, if my memory serves me correctly here, has made it plain there would be no charge made if the NPPL wanted to use his format, I don't know whether that still stands but I am pretty sure he said it to me once.

I think XBall lite should be the standard format, it remains to be seen whether its 5 or 7 though but once again, a mere detail

 

[JtJ]

yeah, but how could they make a giant Y shaped bunker stand up and stay up?

why make concessions? let nature take its course and then the NPPL can have everything without conceding anything.

 

[Baca Loco]

Originally posted by Missy Q
Loco - I looked up Starr Jones on the internet to better understand your insult. And as I thought, you are a twat.

Insult?! How so when you identify yourself as 300lbs. of chocolate love?

 

[SteveD]

Pete,

Sergey's lawyers may have said you can't patent a format - but what they were really saying is 'you can't patent all of the variations well enough to prevent someone from stealing your thunder'.

BTW - I am the one with the patent - not Richmond. My format is what X-Ball is based on (anyone who's on the inside knows it) and, in my humble opinion, the 'changes' that X-Ball made were all for the worst.

The heart of my patent was the scoring system that did away with all of the problems associated with a single, center flag system, and did away with all of the defensive play that made the game unsuitable for tv/spectating.

Before anyone asks 'why didn't you defend the patent' - I did, with the limited financial means I had at my disposal at the time.

I also told NPPL that they could have the format at no fee.

I would also suggest that the 'can't patent it' is misleading, as the Arena Football League has done so here in the states quite successfull; franchises are really licensing agreements and it makes it much easier for the league to control the teams as a result; don't comply - no license. No license, no play.

There is new IP coming for my format and some solid technical ones at that, pushing it closer to the ability to confer true exclusivity on it.

But here's the real kicker; my format (X-Ball without all of the bad changes) is CHEAPER to play than X-Ball. In fact, a whole game will probably cost the same in paint as a standard 7 player format would.

To conclude: a patented game format with MONEY behind it to enforce the rights CAN and HAS been done.

Imagine playing a television format for the same or even less cost than a standard format, let alone X-Ball. Run that uip the flagpole and see who comes looking.

 

[Furby]

Nice conversation going on here, but I still haven't seen anything that convinces me that reunification is going to happen.

Not that it matters really if I'm convinced or not. At the end of the day I'm even less relevant than my humble colleague, the mentally unstable bovine professes to be.

Just a little trivia...I spoke with Mike Ratko at Skyball 2002 and he showed me what was to become X-Ball on paper, and my first reaction was "That looks an awful lot like the USPL format."

Food for thought.

For now, I tend to agree with Mr. Stein. Who'd have thunk it?

 

[BigbOYALA2]

Originally posted by Missy Q
What Up Bigboy!


Obviously one of THE key questions in the case of a merger.



1- I disagree. The European players also said it was 'here to stay'. Nick was threatening to slit his wrists if Euro X-ball was 'got rid of', but it didn't work out. It didn't work because it was too expensive to play and to attend events with double the players. All costs doubled, paint, flights, hotels, hire cars, food, everything.
While your loyalty to the format is admirable (as was Nicks'), I think it may be time to wake up and smell the rather cost prohibitive coffee.

2- I also think it has yet to be proved that X-ball is THE TV format. There is little other than opinion to back this statement up. If proof were required either way then the existing X-ball TV show would have to be mentioned, and that would not help your argument one bit. One the one hand, there are players that still believe in the format. I would argue that there are now more players that do not.
The other, and more valid argument is that the X-ball format is not the PSP's. It is a patented format that wouldn't be able to be used anyway. Don't think PSP and Xball are one entity. They are not. Should the PSP and NPPL merge then this would not mean that the X-ball format could be used anyway, at least not without the consent of Richmond. Consent that would doubtless come at a price, and not necessarily a monetary one...



3- Again, the format is not the PSP's, and please explain what a 'player driven' atmostphere means. From attending both series all year I have yet to see anything resembling an 'atmostphere' at the PSP events, but plenty of 'atmostphere' at the NPPL gigs. What sort of atmostphere are you refering to? An atmostphere of discontent? I could see how that would be 'player driven'.....

As for this merger happening in the near future, it will either happen in the near future or it will not happen at all. I feel it is best to hope that it does. But thats just me.


Loco - I looked up Starr Jones on the internet to better understand your insult. And as I thought, you are a twat.

1- Europe is far from America Missy. The funds that seemingly dried up because of XBall last year in Europe are easier and more readily accessible in the States. And with the astronomical numbers of teams competing in the NPPL, I can almost guarantee that the average amount of money spent per division is about the same. If XBall were introduced to the NPPL, I think it could be easily argued that a large majority of existing NPPL teams would join up with other existing NPPL teams, thus reducing the number of teams while maintaining the number of players.

2- Meh, I think TV is a moot point and something we should not really be worried about yet. Paintball is still about as exciting to watch as paint drying, and I don't think we will ever have a real TV deal. I think everyone needs to stop expecting some gigantic sum of money to fall from the sky, and work with things as they are, not as we hope they will be. And no, XBall may not be PSP's format, but it is the PSP if you know what I'm saying. And I don't think Richmond would have a problem giving his consent to the NPPL if he thought it was the smart thing to do, he's a good businessman.

3- NPPL events are all about spectacle. They are fancy, showy, bright, and all around what one might consider "better" than the PSP. HOWEVER, I prefer the feeling I get when I attend a PSP event: that I'm part of a select group of talented ballers playing because we love it and want to have fun, not because we're some circus act for the general public to watch.