Welcome To P8ntballer.com
The Home Of European Paintball
Sign Up & Join In

not again, again

PaintballChannel

New Member
Mar 27, 2002
89
0
0
www.paintballchannel.com
SteveD:

I have preached what you have said, as many other players have as well.

Unfortunately, in the past anyways, it has fallen on deaf ears.

Perhaps with Robbo being on the rules committee, this will change.

And, yes...I totally agree there are incestuous relationships within the industry when it comes to teams, promoters, and sponsors.

And I defenitely agree that paintball needs an idependant reffing crew to officiate games.

I was kind of hoping that 2003 would be the year of change, but perhaps 2004 will be.

Time will tell.
 

Furby

Naughty Paintball God
Mar 28, 2002
432
26
28
54
Norman Park, Georgia
www.thefordreport.com
Originally posted by Robbo
My sincere apologies Brian, he was pushing it as usual :rolleyes: and I really ain't in the mood for him to tell me nething !
I'm sure he'll come over to my house now...ah well. Glad to see you're unbroken from this incident, Robbo. Speaking from experience, I know it's never a good thing when physical violence rears its ugly head on the field...either as the beater or beatee!
 

Robbo

Owner of this website
Jul 5, 2001
13,116
2,157
448
London
www.p8ntballer.com
Originally posted by PaintballChannel
SteveD:

I have preached what you have said, as many other players have as well.

Unfortunately, in the past anyways, it has fallen on deaf ears.

Perhaps with Robbo being on the rules committee, this will change.

And, yes...I totally agree there are incestuous relationships within the industry when it comes to teams, promoters, and sponsors.

And I defenitely agree that paintball needs an idependant reffing crew to officiate games.

I was kind of hoping that 2003 would be the year of change, but perhaps 2004 will be.

Time will tell.
Bryan, I think my wearing of the rules committee hat and that of Nexus's was just one of the problems when it came to handing out penalties....I am considering what to do about it now !
 

rancid

Mother, is that you?
Originally posted by PaintballChannel
No, not if they went by the rules.

Besides, Robbo had clearance from a field official to enter the field.
What rules? You mean the ones that are made up as we go along? ;) As I understand it, certain people or varying influence wanted Rage banned, but as a condition Nexus would have been booted too. If I was Robbo I'd have pretended that nout had happened as well... c'mon, he's not normally slow in coming forward now is he. Why did he temper his approach on this one? Cos he had a sword pointed at Nexus' throat.

SteveD, is this about reffing or politics? I think we could have you cloned a 100 times and marshalling every inch of the site, but Rage would still be turning up for the next game.
 

Mister.44

New Member
Jan 22, 2003
2
0
0
Visit site
My question is -

Why arent your pressing charges Robbo?

I realize things can get heated - I understand they may have had a grudge. Perhaps they even apologized. But I guess I cant even fathom getting attacked by 5 people in a paintball game. Granted my frame wouldnt have held up as well as yours - but they did attack you.

Look - I just cant understand what makes people cross the line and act like animals. Personally Id have called the cops and looks like most of Rage would have been carted off in handcuffs.
 

Robbo

Owner of this website
Jul 5, 2001
13,116
2,157
448
London
www.p8ntballer.com
Originally posted by Mister.44
My question is -

Why arent your pressing charges Robbo?

I realize things can get heated - I understand they may have had a grudge. Perhaps they even apologized. But I guess I cant even fathom getting attacked by 5 people in a paintball game. Granted my frame wouldnt have held up as well as yours - but they did attack you.

Look - I just cant understand what makes people cross the line and act like animals. Personally Id have called the cops and looks like most of Rage would have been carted off in handcuffs.
The cops were there and came straight up to me when they heard what went down, but what's the point?
They asked me if I was gonna press charges and I just told them 'no'.
My number one concern from thereonin was Nexus, so I think you can work out what it would have been like for my team had we to come over next year after having filed charges.......
Nah, couldn't be bothered with all that cr@p.
 

Takedown

Sacramento XSV
Mar 27, 2002
185
0
0
Visit site
I don't see the wrong in Pete going on the field. He is the coach/captain for Nexus and should be the one that disputes anything that happens, after the game is over. If Pete entered the field before game over was called then that is an issue, but he did ask and was granted permission to enter. His only mistake I can see was responding to Rage when they were talking **** in the deadbox.

Our team had an issue with a false start at this event. I happened to be sitting this game. After the players from the other team were checked I asked the judges on the field if I could enter the field to discuss this situation. The judges did ask if I played the game and I told them that I did not, but as field captain I had the right to discuss what had happened.

Regardless if Pete sits on the rules committe or not he does have the right to discuss calls with the ultimate judge, since he is the captain for Nexus.
 

SteveD

Getting Up Again
not politics

and if the subject were raised, I'd immediately remove myself from contention for such a job: reffing has such a bad name these days that anyone who was brought forth as an 'independent' ref would have to be able to demonstrate the fact beyond question. If the folks doing the selection and suggesting the methodology for choosing told me that my past would interfere with my position, I wouldn't like it, but I'd have to back off, since such a thing would need to start from an absolutely clean slate.

I offered my contacts at NASO and the other information and research that I have put together because I have previously worked on the problem (without finding the necessary funding), alas.

NASO is the premiere national organzation in the states for professional sports officials. Their own history is beyond question and they have been through the kinds of issues we're experiencing in paintball and have developed the criteria for making a successfull organization. Why reinvent the wheel, basically.

Such an organization would have to be paid from funds which were placed in the equivalent of escrow; the reffing org would be responsible for paying the officials - not the event, not the league. Pay would be guaranteed and absent any political shenanigans.

Review of referee performance would be virtually a full time job; we'd need a crew of ref watchers in addition to the refs themselves.

Leagues hiring such individuals would hire the organization - not individual refs. The org would be responsible for assigning individuals to fields and games and events.

Leagues could lodge complaints about performance, unsuitability, contentions of conflict of interest - but it would be up to the org itself to review such complaints and then take whatever internal action necessary: a ref who IS doing his job, whom a promoter has a problem with, has GOT to know that his organization is behind him. A ref whom a team has a problem with has GOT to know that his organization is behind him.

Players and teams and league owners need to know that the referees are responsible to one thing only - the reffing organization.

Refs in such an organization will be working hard but will need support: liason between leagues and the org - if only to resolve rules issues, methodology for effecting rules changes, methodology for assessing fines; knowing that if a ruling is 'banned for life', that the league itself will enforce that rule.

In short, we need a 'third body' - teams being one, leagues/promoters the second and officials as the third. New events coming on board ought to have hiring such an organization be a requirement for their success.

Rancid - in one sense this is political: how are we going to get the industry to recognize that in the long term, footing the bill for refs will gain them more benefit than the short term advantages conferred by having influence over calls and rules?

This is a big nut to crack: I've been down this road twice before: once with NPPL in '93, when everyone voted for having the teams alternate reffing (and what a joke that has become - most of the teams that 'volunteered' ended up being closely associated with the promoter running that event...) and once with another series, where I tried to hire a group of refs who had no connection to any of the teams participating in the event: in that situation, I ended up with a crew I had to pay off and then substituted with members of the rest of my staff, because the original hires came in with an attitude of 'pros must be cheating, after all, they're pros'...

In this case, the money and will MUST come first. Without either, any new effort is doomed to having to try to make it work without all the pieces in place; that will immediately be followed by second-guessing, and then we're right back to where we started from.

I'm starting the call. Now.

I'm calling for a draft of old fogies who don't play competition anymore, who believe they have no conflicts in reffing national events and who have the time to devote to such a job.

I'm calling on the industry to publicly indicate their willingness to fund an independant reffing crew - without requiring on-field sponsorship representation for doing so and with no strings attached to the money.

I'm calling on leagues and event promoters to publicly announce that they will use such an organization once it is available.

I'm calling on teams and players to DEMAND that their industry support such an effort.

I'm up for helping to organize (fool that I am); I've got unlimited long-distance calling for a flat rate fee, so if anyone thinks calls will help, let me know.

I'm up for doing anything that will help get this ball rolling, so let me know.