I ain't diasreeing with your point, rather with what you said - that quote was a lil bit strident, n'est pas?
Inconsistencies in Toulouse....
- Thread starter fred1
- Start date
We'll sharpen our training and consistency but we aren't going to ignore our semi-only rule in the Millennium.
E-blades and other Cockers had zero problems after they were properly adjusted according to what I was told. If Nick Truter can adjust the E-blades so they get past Andy Scutt, so can any decent techie.
All the major brands of guns were in the finals without problems of legality. There was no substantially "enhanced" shooting on the stadium fields on Sunday; none that we could perceive. And if we couldn't perceive it, no player had a substantial advantage.
Somebody correct me if you saw something I didn't.
So I don't think there was a major problem with how we handled it in Toulouse. I just think it is an irritating and painful process we'll all have to adjust to. I feel for those who got suspended who had no ill intent or who weren't grossly negligent.
Just like newbies have to learn what barrel condoms, chronographs, max PSI, input pressure, and velocity adjustments are all about, so must all of us learn how to adjust the settings on our guns.
We've been slack on illegal guns in the past few years so its just a reality check. Sorry but what NXL is doing isn't realistic for us. Ain't gonna happen.
At the next Millennium tournament a larger percentage of players will put more margin into their settings just like all the players who went into the finals in Toulouse. I hope 100% will. We'll also sharpen our skills and consistency.
But we might still miss those four or five cheater guns just waiting to be used...(and won't really get a chance).
Steve
E-blades and other Cockers had zero problems after they were properly adjusted according to what I was told. If Nick Truter can adjust the E-blades so they get past Andy Scutt, so can any decent techie.
All the major brands of guns were in the finals without problems of legality. There was no substantially "enhanced" shooting on the stadium fields on Sunday; none that we could perceive. And if we couldn't perceive it, no player had a substantial advantage.
Somebody correct me if you saw something I didn't.
So I don't think there was a major problem with how we handled it in Toulouse. I just think it is an irritating and painful process we'll all have to adjust to. I feel for those who got suspended who had no ill intent or who weren't grossly negligent.
Just like newbies have to learn what barrel condoms, chronographs, max PSI, input pressure, and velocity adjustments are all about, so must all of us learn how to adjust the settings on our guns.
We've been slack on illegal guns in the past few years so its just a reality check. Sorry but what NXL is doing isn't realistic for us. Ain't gonna happen.
At the next Millennium tournament a larger percentage of players will put more margin into their settings just like all the players who went into the finals in Toulouse. I hope 100% will. We'll also sharpen our skills and consistency.
But we might still miss those four or five cheater guns just waiting to be used...(and won't really get a chance).
Steve
I think Steve is completly right here.
If people would put effort into knowing their gun and their setup they could easily remedy any trigger bounce.i have all kinds of guns (shockers/impulse/e-blade) in our team and we always make sure that our guns are not bouncing, if there's a bounce problem which you can not correct yourself, go to the tech from you brand of gun which are available at any of the MS events (e.g. Smartparts/WDP etc. etc.).
It has been told over and over again at captains meetings/forums etc. etc. that trigger-bounce is not allowed. To show up at an event like Toulouse with a gun which has trigger-bounce is just plain stupid and i dont feel sorry for people who got caught with it, cause it was down to their own ignorance.
Tubbie
If people would put effort into knowing their gun and their setup they could easily remedy any trigger bounce.i have all kinds of guns (shockers/impulse/e-blade) in our team and we always make sure that our guns are not bouncing, if there's a bounce problem which you can not correct yourself, go to the tech from you brand of gun which are available at any of the MS events (e.g. Smartparts/WDP etc. etc.).
It has been told over and over again at captains meetings/forums etc. etc. that trigger-bounce is not allowed. To show up at an event like Toulouse with a gun which has trigger-bounce is just plain stupid and i dont feel sorry for people who got caught with it, cause it was down to their own ignorance.
Tubbie
I think your responses are not taking into account alot of what has been said here....
And basically we're back at stage 1:
And basically we're back at stage 1:
So it's the players fault. It's cause players lack sufficient technical knowledge. If my gun passes Nick's tests then I don't lack technical knowledge cause my gun is set up correctly. Why is it I had to haggle in the finals to get it on the field = because it is unclear what a bouncing gun is. Where do we draw the line. I'm pretty sure a group of ten, randomly picked paintballers, will manage to bounce any electro cocker it is given (as a group that is). One more thing: I saw Nick testing a gun for somebody who had been told it was illegal and was refused on the field..... it passed the tests 150%. We have a problem.
We are playing competitive paintball. We play at the limit we need a gun thats pushing the limits. We can't have a gun thats shooting like an 1990 automag. And thats what its like to be on the safe side.
I was in the finals and I had the problems stated before. My gun was checked and considered illegal. After discussion and haggling I managed to convince that it was legal (or I was such a pain in the ass that I was let on the field) => which means that rules are still unclear, subject to interpretation therefore a lottery as Colin said and we want more clarity.
And this is the major problem I have with Eblades. I don't and haven't had that problem with any other gun I've ever messed with. All the eblades I've used either shoot like crap, or they bounce... no in-between. I realize that people claim that someone can set them up right, to not bounce yet still shoot fast, and honestly, I'd like to know what he's doing. So far, all I know to do is lengthen cdel, up the tpul and especially the trel... turn down the LPR, and try to get the trigger long and stiff. Problem is, once you do that enough to get the bounce out, you can't walk the trigger any more.
Now, I've done this on Eclipse's own cockers, Eclass Orracles, and stock upgraded cockers with similar results on all of them. Funny, Eclipse's people reccomend doing something to lighten the cycling mass. People don't like to be told they need to buy new lighter parts after just dropping $400 on a frame and eye install...
I agree it sounds like the bouncing procedures aren't up to snuff, but from what I see, people are talking about guns that I personally don't want to see on the field. I still think that it's better to sacrifice ROF than take my chances with the refs and this system.
DK1
I dont think the problem is as marker specific as you make out, but the manufacturers make their products to comply with the current rules and standards.
As the goalposts are continually being moved (and the Millenium going in a different direction to the NXL) it is no wonder some markers are impossible to make legal.
The sooner the MS produces proper guidelines in the form of a mathematical relation between trigger pulls and discharges the sooner this will all be resolved.
We need to be told at least:
The maximum time between a trigger pull and discharge.
The mechanical characteristics of the mechanical debounce testing procedure.
Tests such as:
'Can the marshall make it bounce'.
Or 'it seems to be shooting after you let go of the trigger'
Are no use to anybody as they rely on individual interpretation of the rules, which lead to the inconsistencies which people here are complaining about.
As the goalposts are continually being moved (and the Millenium going in a different direction to the NXL) it is no wonder some markers are impossible to make legal.
The sooner the MS produces proper guidelines in the form of a mathematical relation between trigger pulls and discharges the sooner this will all be resolved.
We need to be told at least:
The maximum time between a trigger pull and discharge.
The mechanical characteristics of the mechanical debounce testing procedure.
Tests such as:
'Can the marshall make it bounce'.
Or 'it seems to be shooting after you let go of the trigger'
Are no use to anybody as they rely on individual interpretation of the rules, which lead to the inconsistencies which people here are complaining about.
Maybe the idea of a fixed penalty for any gun that has an easily activated trigger bounce. Whilst the difference between marshalls whom can find a bounce point on a trigger and those marshalls whom cannot is a big problem with reagrds to cinsistency. I agree there can be major consistency problems between tournaments, fields and marshalls. Consistency can be nullified by if a marker has been found to be able to be bounced by at least two marshalls then the player whos marker it is must wear a nice pair of crusty leather gardening gloves for the duration of the current game. Everyone wins. the player gets to play. the opponenets get to play a full team. the marker cannot be bounced by the player as easily. This would be a great way to overcome all the problems previously discussed.
Thanks,
scribbs.
Thanks,
scribbs.