Do Your Part to Help Reunification

[Missy Q]

OK, I am trying to stay out of this, simply because it is peoples opinions, and therefore each is valid. Its only when I see some blatant bollox posted that I like to jump in. Unfortunately a lot of this bollox is coming from Chicago. To qualify, I think Chicago is largely a sensible dude who by and large knows what he is talking about, but can't resist spoiling his posts by adding unsubstantiated and in many cases, ridiculous, bollox, mainly making uneducated statements about things he knows little about. Unfortunately, as he knows a fair amount about other stuff, his uninformed statements can get mistaken for truth, which of course, they aren't.

I am not interested in insulting you Chicago, I just want to know why you spoil a perfectly good if opinionated post by talking bollox in the middle of it?

For example. What do the NPPL's 'limited" resources (not that you would know if those rsources were limited or not) got to do with ESPN? The answer to that would be nothing. Its bollox.

ESPN put more money into Miami than any other sponsor. How then has resource been 'spent' on them that could have gone somewhere else? Thats bollox.

"Resources spent chasing TV that should be spent on tournaments" - I know you like to take the purist approach, but please qualify that. NPPL do the tournament. PP would be the guys 'chasing TV'. Where is your cross-over and the basis of your argument. Don't bother answering, cos its bollox.

If the PSP have a dicky event they will tell you they didn't, and that in fact it was a resounding success (see 4th event 04 - can't even remember the name of the place).
PP are ashamed of the event in Miami, and there won't be another one there, you can take that to the bank. There is also the matter of the hurricane that blew through there, and in hindsight, which of course so many people on here have in abundance, it would have been better to cancel that event altogether.

It was undoubtedly PP's worst event in 2 years. The NPPL can't very well be blamed, as the location choice and set up was done exclusively by PP. Now as an aside, I don't expect people to understand the relationship between PP and NPPL, but just take a breath for a moment and believe me that there is one. They are not the same, and they have very different responsibilities. I won't detail them as I have done this before and it doesn't stop people from lumping bands and gun rules together in the same statement to make lame points.

And Chicago, Fruit, TV and Bunker cleaning crews are all things that the PP has brought with them, now you want to choose which of these you want them to concentrate on? How much effort do you feel it takes to concentrate on water or fruit?

PP has already picked people to work with ESPN, and they are good people.
Usual NPPL standards will be resumed in HB.

one more thing, we have spoken about the behavior of players at events. The NPPL is no longer allowed to use any Marriot Hotels due to rooms being trashed.

Rooms have been trashed and Hotels have excluded paintballers at the last 6 events. The most common culprits are the HK Kids, who love trashing rooms and think it's hilarious. The Stoned Assassins also trashed a room in Miami. Who thinks that if paintballers are found to be ruining paintballs already dicey reputation that they should be banned from events? I love the Stoned Assassins, they are cool people, but can we keep putting up with actions like this if we are likely to run out of hotels that will take paintballers money? Or should we do as Chicago says, and just disappear back into the woods and pay the refs more money with what can be saved on amenities? There are plenty of cheap motels out in the sticks that woudn't care if people break stuff and mess it up a bit.

Chicago, stick to what you know mate. I don't want to offend, but maybe the 'pro-paintballer' in you needs to stick to playing paintball. Because your "screw TV where's my bunker cleaning crew' comment is drenched with twat sauce.

 

[Chicago]

Well, Missy, I think part of the problem here is you're not informed enough to know whether or not I'm informed.

Frankly, I don't see how someone who makes a statement like "NPPL runs the event, Pure Promotions chases the TV" can possibly accuse me of being uninformed. We all know that the main man organizing these events is Bart. The vast majority of what goes on at the events - location booking, materials, resources, taking the money, etc, are done by Pure Promotions. When I say they have limited resources, I mean exactly that: There's a limit. They don't have infinite staff, infinite time, infinite money. So when they take some of those resources and allocate them to TV things, they are not available for the rest of the event stuff. It is my impression that 1) the quality of Miami was lower than other NPPL/PP events 2) There was necessarily effort spent on accomodating the television portion of the event and 3) There was not an apparent increase/movement of staff to pick up the slack from the people diverted to the television aspect. I believe this was partially responsible for some of the quality issues at the event.

Now, let's address some other things in the post:

ESPN put $0 into the event. $0 into the taping, $0 into the production. *ALL* of the money for that event came out of the "new ideas" marketing budget at TWI/IMG. Of that money, beyond perhaps $25k for the Pro 1st place prize, $0 went to the event. TWI didn't help pay for refs, they didn't help pay for fields, they didn't help pay for netting, or anything else. They paid for the production of the TV show.

So, ESPN was not a sponsor at all, and TWI picked up the production. You can rest assured that if there was ESPN money going into that thing, there would have been a much bigger presence there than 2 banners on the netting.

PSP's 4th event of 04, at Nemacolin Woodlands Resort, was a PHENOMENAL event in EVERY way EXCEPT that it was an hour away from anything. You got to stay in $300 rooms for $100. The fields were spectacular. There were relatively few fields, so even the reffing was passable. Hell, they even had a players party with FREE BEER for everyone. Free beer > free fruit. Now, maybe you didn't like it, or maybe you wern't even there, but the event was fine, and PSP wasn't telling you it sucked because, well, it didn't suck.

In hindsight, I think it would have been a HUGE mistake to cancel Miami. Yes, the event was sub-par, but not really due to the hurricane, and besides, the oly thing worse than having a sub-par event would be cancelling it and having everyone pissed at you for losing their airfare.

I know you keep getting back to my disdain for free fruit. I don't care about whether free fruit is offered or not really, but I make fun of it because so many people cite free fruit and water as the reason NPPL is better than PSP. For what matters to me as a player, in every category, PSP is equal to or superior to NPPL. The field surface for PSP is better. The format for PSP is better. The value (time played vs. entry fee) is better. The registration system is better. The reffing is equally bad. NPPL has free fruit, free water, a VIP area, bigger stands, better press releases, and is played next to stadiums. You keep saying I shouldn't talk about free fruit because it doesn't really take any effort. I make fun of free fruit PRECISELY BECAUSE it doesn't take any effort - I'm supposed to believe that NPPL/PP is better than PSP because they throw some fruit at me? Because there is a stadium next to the parking lot I'm playing on? I make fun of it because what I *WANT* is good reffing, but what I get is free fruit, and people try and tell me that because there's free fruit, I'm supposed to believe that these guys are putting forth some massive effort at making things better for me, the player. "NPPL cares for the players." But as you keep saying yourself, the things that NPPL does for the players are trivial; they're a distraction from the fact that the things that matter havn't improved nearly as much as the press releases would have you believe.

As for people trashing rooms, where is the connection between my assertion that paintball is better played with the money focused on the paintball instead of "ammenities" and people trashing rooms? NPPL, if they know who these people are, should just ban them from events. Period. Why this is even a matter for discussion is beyond me.


Now, I don't want this to be interpreted as me saying NPPL is bad, or they're screwing over the player, or anything of the sort. NPPL runs good events, and for what many players want, what they offer is superior to what PSP offers. But I just can't sit here and pretend that NPPL/PP "care" about the players while PSP doesn't, or that NPPL/PP is universally better than PSP when PSP ha sit'sown set of things that it is better at that are more important to some players, including myself. There just seems to be a "NPPL can do no wrong" attitude pushed around a lot, and to that I say Bollocks.

 

[Furby]

Just slightly off topic here, but if Miami was a crap NPPL event, I can't wait to play a 'proper' NPPL event...what I saw and experienced as a player in Miami was simply the best tournament experience I've had, ever.

But what do I know? A majority of my major league experience was PSP 5 man...

 

[Missy Q]

Well, Missy, I think part of the problem here is you're not informed enough to know whether or not I'm informed.

Good - a challenge, so lets see shall we?

Frankly, I don't see how someone who makes a statement like "NPPL runs the event, Pure Promotions chases the TV" can possibly accuse me of being uninformed. We all know that the main man organizing these events is Bart. The vast majority of what goes on at the events - location booking, materials, resources, taking the money, etc, are done by Pure Promotions.

You are wrong. PP may take the money, and they may do the locations and materiels, but to claim that is all that goes into running events is ridiculous. What about booking the teams, the refs, the rules, the schedule, the hotels/team accomodations, all of which are done by the NPPL. And to claim Bart is the main man organising the events is also wrong. There are at least 4 people I knew of that do more towrds getting the events organised. As for the "we all know" part, who is "we all"? I know tat to be false, and I would go out on a limb and say that I would have better info than you.

When I say they have limited resources, I mean exactly that: There's a limit. They don't have infinite staff, infinite time, infinite money

Well if you qualify your statement in the most generic possible way then I suppose I can't really argue with it. Yes, you are right, the NPPL, or PP, or whoever else you want to talk about in the entire world, do not have an infinite amount of resource, however that was not what you originally said, but then what you originally said was bollox....

So when they take some of those resources and allocate them to TV things, they are not available for the rest of the event stuff. It is my impression that 1) the quality of Miami was lower than other NPPL/PP events 2) There was necessarily effort spent on accomodating the television portion of the event and 3) There was not an apparent increase/movement of staff to pick up the slack from the people diverted to the television aspect. I believe this was partially responsible for some of the quality issues at the event.

Then you believe wrong. You can argue with me if you like, and I would then have to go into some specifics, but the reason Miami was dire (and I maintain my own opinion that it was) was not that ESPN were there and not that your undisclosed (bollox) 'resources' had anything to do with it. It was a poor venue, and no-one will travel to watch paintball in a disaster zone. Whether people would have travelled to watch it anyway in that location is debatable too. The only way I think ESPN effected the game in a negative way was that they asked for best of 5 and pushed for a format which turned games stale. I don't relate this in any way to Pure Promotions or the overall quality of the event. I think one of the other main things that ruined the traditionally vibrant NPPL atmostphere was the absence of any booze. That again was not a problem that could have been legally combated.

ESPN put $0 into the event.

You see this is the exact stuff I am on you about. You are wrong. You are totally wrong. Yet you make this wrong statement as some kind of fact. If you don't know - ask! There is really no need to be so wrong.

Of that money, beyond perhaps $25k for the Pro 1st place prize, $0 went to the event.

You are wrong again.

TWI didn't help pay for refs, they didn't help pay for fields, they didn't help pay for netting, or anything else. They paid for the production of the TV show.

OK you are only wrong from "or anything else" onwards in this part, so well done.

As for the rest of your post, its your opinion, and there is no problem with that at all, until the end

But I just can't sit here and pretend that NPPL/PP "care" about the players while PSP doesn't, or that NPPL/PP is universally better than PSP when PSP ha sit'sown set of things that it is better at that are more important to some players, including myself. There just seems to be a "NPPL can do no wrong" attitude pushed around a lot, and to that I say Bollocks.

What you sit there and pretend about is up to you, seems you mostly pretend you know stuff about the NPPL, and thats fine too, but expect me to call you on any bollox. I don't slate the PSP, far from it, I thought the World Cup was a better event than Miami, and have no qualms saying so. That statement alone, and others I have made, preclude me from being the guy saying "the NPPL can do no wrong", in which case, who's that guy? - or is it one of your unattributed quuotes (AKA Bollocks) again?

 

[Chicago]

The problem with PSP 5-man is you get all of the problems of 7-man, with none of the benefits NPPL/PP add to 7-man. 7-man > 5-man; NPPL 7-man >>> PSP 5-man, but X-Ball > 7-man.

 

[Chicago]

Originally posted by Missy Q
You are wrong. PP may take the money, and they may do the locations and materiels, but to claim that is all that goes into running events is ridiculous. What about booking the teams, the refs, the rules, the schedule, the hotels/team accomodations, all of which are done by the NPPL. And to claim Bart is the main man organising the events is also wrong. There are at least 4 people I knew of that do more towrds getting the events organised. As for the "we all know" part, who is "we all"? I know tat to be false, and I would go out on a limb and say that I would have better info than you.

If that's your basis for who "runs" the event, then PSP is run by Keely Watson and Chris Raehl. Maybe they can come up with an acronym and call themsleves a player's league.

I'm not saying Bart does all the work for organizing the events, but Bart is the guy who is ultimately in charge of the whole show, and the guy who makes all of the decisions. Anything and everything comes down to what Bart wants to do.

As for the rest, I'm pretty sure I have a better handle on the "ESPN" deal. I think we're just going to have to accept that each of us thinks the other is less informed. But, discounting where I have my information, and pretending I'm just making it up, it's still pretty obvious that what you maintain the deal is can't be what the deal is.

TV networks do not just drop a buncha cash on programming in exchange for two banners on the netting, without any involvement from potential sponsors, especially TV networks like ESPN who already have more programming than they have time to air, and especially when they have people willing to pay them hundreds of thousands of dollars to air very similar programming. It just does not make any sense whatsoever.

This is a marketing firm that has decided that if they spend a little money to put a TV program in the can, they can then sell sponsorship for that program at more than it will cost them to pay ESPN to air it. At best, this marketing company convinced ESPN to give them air time in exchange for sponsor revenues down the road. ESPN wouldn't pay for it because they don't have to.

But I can absolutely guarantee you that there were $0 surplus funds from this TV deal that went to the players, or the league's pocket, in any way, shape or form, other than PERHAPS (and extremely unlikely) $25k from the marketing company for pro 1st place, because the things the league had to sell (sponsor space) were obviously not sold.

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

Rooms have been trashed and Hotels have excluded paintballers at the last 6 events

You guys should add a page to the registration form, and require all teams to fill it in with name and address og their hotel, room numbers and what name the rooms are booked under.... and if they don't fill it in, they don't play.

- Then make a few calls to hotels every once in a while, to make sure information is correct (not to all hotels ofcourse - just enough to ensure teams know they risk having their information checked out - make a false statement - you're gone for a year ).

That way, if a room is ever trashed it ever happens again - you can easily ban then fcukers for a year, and see how many more rooms they decide to trash when they return to the league a year later

First time you do it - and make it public, it will have a marvelous effect on the rest of the players in the league.

Nick

 

[AngryJim]

probly just easier to call the hotel and ask what name the trashed room was under and find the guilty party. Whoever it was has to turn in their team for a ban for a certain timespan or they themselves get a lifetime ban.

 

[Chicago]

You don't need anything so ... involved. Just have the hotels send you a list of people and compare it to the rosters. Ban as appropriate.

 

[Chicago]

Actually, funny story...

So the story at Old Towne was some kids were shooting a minivan from their hotel room. One of the PSP refs saw it, went up to the room, took their ID cards, and they all got banned for a year.

Maybe you just require NPPL/PSP ID cards at checkin for the reduced rate.