Bad for the sport?

[Robbo]

Diverging on another tangent

Originally posted by Baca Loco
To Tyger--Greetings
I've been reading your stuff for a long time and through a truly bizarre twist of fate the first post of yours I respond to has me agreeing with you. Go figure.

You are correct when you turn the tables on the tourney side of the paintball equation. The examples of out of control, moronic and childish behavior from tourney players is (apparently) endless--please note pretty extreme example from recent LA Open (or in TJ's case, LA Closed) with player suspended 6 games, and his team's [temporary?] loss of a big sponsor. No question this stuff filters down and colors the impression of tourney paintball and players. (should it matter I learned this game in the woods, even played WC back in the woods days the first time, and don't play rec at all anymore cus it's just too damn tedious for words)

The only inequity in the equation is that for the time-being ugly stuff that happens at tournies is more or less limited to people who already follow paintball while some of the misuse of paintball equipment that gets reported in the major press tends to be associated with rec ball--probably because reporters, like the general population, don't know any better.

In the long run tho I think the "face" of paintball will be provided by tourney ball. That's what drives the industry (why does Chevy build the Corvette, or Kingman start the Spyder Cup?--It's all about image); and that's what drives the mags too despite coverage of Joe Schmoe and Dollack's latest debacle. Just look at the ads in the mags. (and if rumor is correct and Upper Deck has signed on to produce trading cards how many of those rec-stars are we gonna see?)

In my neck of the woods we don't really play in the woods anymore, rec or tourney. Most every field I know, around a dozen or so, all have Airball and/or Hyperball fields and everybody has all sorts of speedball fields otherwise nobody shows up, rec or otherwise.

And yes, there will probably always be rec ball but it will tend toward the camo combat simulators as paintball develops into a more fully realized sport. (and that straddle of yours, Tyger, will get harder and harder to maintain.)

Moo

Moo,
I'm impressed !!!!!!!!
I am obviously well aware of Tyger's opinions and writing skills and now I know of you and yours.
An eloquent and reasoned post and I am in no way being patronising.
Damn, there seems to be more and more poeple coming in here (the likes of Budhha, Pheonix and Killer Onion to name but a few) who seem to be dispelling all the myths with regard to paintballers and uneducated / boring posts.
I better start running for cover if you all begin to gang up
Laters Moo
Robbo

PS U a Yank or a Brit ?
The spelling of 'realized' infers you are a Yank but the quoting of Baldrick from Blackadder hints at you being a Brit.....confused

 

[Baca Loco]

Thanks Robo (sidebar tribute to TJ)

Appreciate it. With the anonymity of the Web I'm allowed to have a vocabulary, spell correctly (most of the time) and hopefully not sound like an idiot.
Out with the guys I usually resort to single syllables. The *******s (said with affection) still don't know all the codes and they haven't changed in a long time so you get the idea. For more complex ideas we just yell at each other and use hand signals--or is that gestures?
BTW, it's Baca Loco--that's 'mad cow' for you Brits, and Moo is what I do; in a completely manly way however.
Moo


An American with the good sense to appreciate some of the finer things; like 'Blackadder.'

 

[Tyger]

Diverging on another tangent

Originally posted by Baca Loco
And yes, there will probably always be rec ball but it will tend toward the camo combat simulators as paintball develops into a more fully realized sport. (and that straddle of yours, Tyger, will get harder and harder to maintain.)

I respectfully disagree. Rec ball is more about entertainment than it is about combat simulation. Rec-ball is an entertainment industry, and always will be. It's about providing the gear, the facility, and the safety procedures and the customers, basically, entertain themselves.

I don't see rec-ball going fully into the combat motif, mainly because it wouldn't be agood buisness. If tournament paintball truly drives the sport, as is maintained, tehn players will demand a more professional envoronment. They'll still want woods, but not becasue of combat. Bcasue it's diffrent than what you can get elsewhere. (Think of it in terms of a diffrent environment, change of pace.)

Dollack has been doing scenario games bassed on miliary maneuves for a long time, becasue the paralells are obvious. But most rec-ball isn't angled that way. Kinda like I could say ost tournament paintball isn't angled to drinking, smoking, and stealing guns either.

As for maintaining my straddle, it's easier than you think. If paintball goes big time, and I'm lucky enough to make the cut, I'll still play rec. Hell, I'll go to fields where I'm at and go play. It's not unique. Many athletes will just walk into a game in progress and go play with the guys there. I'm game. 'ball is 'ball. And, besides, If paintball is a "sport", you gotta give props to your fans.

-Tyger

 

[Village Lackey]

Humbug!

I think -(please note)....... that the opinions on this topic are varied and are favoring how paintball has grown in the UK and not necessarily elsewhere. It started as Rec ball, flourished as Rec ball, and is still 90% plus supported financially by Rec ball. 1-2 tourney's a month does not compare $ to $ with
every weekend being scheduled with newbies playing, at least in North America anyway.

Many of the tourney players have come from the origins of rec ball. I understand the enthusiasm for tourney play, but please don't be knocking some of the people who have supported this sport for a long time. Without these people it may not have been around for you to enjoy.(10 years of supporting REC before getting into tourney)

While its not conducive to promote paintball with anything to the liking of the military, maybe you should have just looked at some insight into why would he want to do this? and explain an alternative and the reasons? (Then again who
knows, you are on the Internet,who knows with whom your dealing with....maybe a good F-OFF would be correct.)

Ah what do I know....

Lackey

 

[John Molloy]

Originally posted by Darkwerks
Jonh Molloy:
This would be the PT extreme , the marker that looks remarkably like a Berreta 92f, as used by a large majority of police across the world and current US military issue? The "PT" stands for "police training".

Did you know I hadn't noticed it looked like a berreta 92? and wasn't aware of the PT meaning? and I and my pal Alien got 'em for rec ball so don't be confused look at the thread on stupid conversions and see what we are doing to em ( the Berreta resemblance only holds without the feed tube dude)

 

[Baca Loco]

Rec-ball's future

Tyger,
I'm not disagreeing with you (too much). I did say "tend" toward camo combat simulation play. And I suggested that because at least in my part of North America there are now two distinct but not yet totally separate types of rec players; type 1 plays Tourney Lite paintball and type 2 keeps a ghillie suit in their trunk with their night vision goggles. (OK, a slight exaggeration but you get the point)
Maybe we are also disagreeing, if indeed we are, because of terms. My definition of camo combat sims is 15 to 20 guys on a team wearing their woodlands and more or less on the break ducking behind brush, finding a bunker and camping out for the duration. Is that all woods play or woods players? Of course not, but its alot of them when they first start playing. At some point most begin to diverge as they continue playing--to tourney type fields or camo combat sim.

PS--Perhaps most of the players in your godforsaken, frozen wasteland part of the country like woods 'cus that's what they're used to and that's mostly all they got.

Moo

 

[Tyger]

Rec-ball's future

Originally posted by Baca Loco
...type 1 plays Tourney Lite paintball and type 2 keeps a ghillie suit in their trunk with their night vision goggles. (OK, a slight exaggeration but you get the point)

...At some point most begin to diverge as they continue playing--to tourney type fields or camo combat sim.

PS--Perhaps most of the players in your godforsaken, frozen wasteland part of the country like woods 'cus that's what they're used to and that's mostly all they got.

A lot of what we get up here is a mixture. Nobody has a ghillie suit in the trunk, but at the same time you get a lot of woods specalists. A lot of the fields here are hybrids, woods with stuff on 'em.

It's mostly a matter of nowhere to put a sup-air field. I came to a conclusion that Hyperball and Sup-Air fields were invented by people who lived on a farmland, or at least in a place with nothing to hide behind.

We're used to woods, but at the same time nobody here, well, a few fields here have concept fields now. Note that I'm not arguing that it's the FROZEN TUNDRA!!!

Off the subject, but it needs to be said. We used "MOO" as a team signal one day, just as a code to yell out of context.

"HEY JIM!" I yell to Jim on the other side of the field

"What?"

"MOO!"

"Oh, man, we're screwed." and his team was all confused, scrambing. "He said moo!" he told them. "We're screwed now!"

Just had to tell ya.

-Tyger

 

[Darkwerks]

Originally posted by John Molloy


Did you know I hadn't noticed it looked like a berreta 92? and wasn't aware of the PT meaning? and I and my pal Alien got 'em for rec ball so don't be confused look at the thread on stupid conversions and see what we are doing to em ( the Berreta resemblance only holds without the feed tube dude)

Ah, well, then, your man with the Tippmann-98-converted-to-a-m16 should have no problems as long as his marker is fed from a hopper and not from a magazine

 

[Baca Loco]

Re: Rec-ball's future

Originally posted by Tyger


A lot of what we get up here is a mixture. Nobody has a ghillie suit in the trunk, but at the same time you get a lot of woods specalists. A lot of the fields here are hybrids, woods with stuff on 'em.

Off the subject, but it needs to be said. We used "MOO" as a team signal one day, just as a code to yell out of context.
"HEY JIM!" I yell to Jim on the other side of the field
"What?"
"MOO!"
"Oh, man, we're screwed." and his team was all confused, scrambing. "He said moo!" he told them. "We're screwed now!"
Just had to tell ya.

-Tyger

But I note you're not denying the the night vision goggles. As to the hybrid fields reach, it stinks of desperation. Any woods field intended for paintball is modified (ie: the addition of some strategically placed bunkers of whatever sort) so that hardly qualifies as a hybrid field in the sense that it somehow is akin to a modern concept field--which is how I took the "hybrid field" comment.
And if you've been running around playing ball on large expanses of unaltered woods I think you have pretty much confirmed my argument for me. Thanks.

I always say you never know when a good "Moo" will come in handy. At least I do now.

Moo

PS--have you ever noticed what a pain it is to shoot a guy in ghillie suit. They can't see the paint, you can't see the paint, they insist they didn't feel anything, etc. You just have to keep shooting them until they squeal. (and no, that wasn't a really obtuse Ned Beatty reference but it doesn't sound good, does it?)

 

[TJ Lambini]

Loco

So waht do you play and where do you stand in this whole thing, out of interest...