Bad for the sport?

[Baca Loco]

Where do I stand?

On the ground, doh! (rimshot)
As mentioned in an earlier post I started playing woods mostly. Have even been to a few Big Games and played rec-ball for about a year, year and a half before making the transition to tourney ball. Don't really play rec at all anymore though will on rare occasions go out to a field for recreational play it's pretty much with other tourney players.
I personally have no problems with folks playing "paintball" any old way they enjoy it. (As to the marker set up to look like real hardware it's just too silly, isn't it? Trainers that shoot paintballs and are used in various training simulations [swat, police, military] have already been around for awhile and that's got nothing to do with paintball as a game or sport.)
As to what paintball is, or is becoming, I think that in the long haul the sport aspect of paintball will become the public face of "paintball" regardless of how the numbers break down. Besides, as I suggested to Tyger a significant number of the rec players in my area are being introduced to the game and learning to play paintball as Tourney Lite. The local reality is that at least 75% of all the young kids getting into the game are growing up on visions of tournament play and players, not creeping thru the scrub and setting up for that one ball elimination. They want the top markers, they all play wearing some colorful tourney type jerseys and are full of serious questions about air systems, upgrades and what was it like to do that or play there.
The hearts and minds of the next generation of players are geared toward tourney style ball. (And I think it's obvious most of the industry agrees with me. Look at the trend in low end markers and tell me the latest Piranhas and Rebels are being marketed to kids playing in the woods.)

It's the wave of the future. Ride it or get swept under.

Moo

 

[Baca Loco]

Whoops!

Maestro Zamboni
After the fact I realized I hadn't actually responded to this thread's original subject so here goes.
Guy who wants a weapon-like paintball gun has pretty much relegated himself to dinosaur status--his breed is dying out. In the short run the only "harm" he does is to the undoubtedly small circle of his aquaintances. Larger problem of a similar sort is using military facilities, like MOUT bases, for big game events. Far more likely to get publicity and instead of a lone gunman you've two or three hundred of them and its pretty hard to deny that they have nothing to do with paintball but in the long run those guys will be using paintball equipment but they won't be playing "paintball" if you get the distinction.
Perhaps with proper education and maybe bribery his kind can be convinced to switch over to playing Airsoft. (The guns are really cool looking!) Only problem with that is any self respecting man wouldn't be caught dead hanging out with such a pack of wannabe geeks.

Moo

 

[Buddha 3]

I don't want to say that you are an elitist, but man, are you an elitist or what!
I play tourney. But who am I (or you, we, they) to say that what they do is not paintball? Face it bro, the way they play the game has been around longer than the way we play, so we are hardly in the position to tell them how to go about things, especially when taking into consideration that we are the minority by far.
Like I said earlier, the way his marker looks is irrelevant. People wil see it as a gun whether or not it resembles some real gun.
Open your eyes next time you're at a tournament, and you'll see a good number of geeks amongst us too (not me obviously ).

 

[warpd]

The difference between the bad behavior on tourney teams, and the warlike image a lot of recballers portay paintball as, is that in any sport especially professional sports athletes are known for their bad behaviour on the field. Look at the NBA or NFL, I wouldn't say that just because some big tourney players act childish that makes the general public believe we are not a sport. What makes them believe it is not a sport is that they have never heard of or seen tourney paintball. What they believe is a 100% of paintball, is rec woods play, because they don't know of any other types of paintball. The way for the general public to accept paintball as a sport, is to show them the tourney side as much as possible. Ultimately I believe that play on concept fields and play in woods will evolve into totally seperate parts of paintball, with magazines and companies solely dedicated to each, which to a certain extent has already happened.

 

[Tyger]

Not nessarily...

Originally posted by Baca Loco
But I note you're not denying the the night vision goggles. As to the hybrid fields reach, it stinks of desperation.
...
And if you've been running around playing ball on large expanses of unaltered woods I think you have pretty much confirmed my argument for me. Thanks.

I always say you never know when a good "Moo" will come in handy. At least I do now.

Moo

PS--have you ever noticed what a pain it is to shoot a guy in ghillie suit.

In order :

Teh night vision goggles... I kinda assumed that the crack of ghillie suits would have included that. Nobody that I know own NVG's or any kind of IR sensory array equipment.

As far as hypbrid fields "Stinking of desperation"? Huh? I realy don't understand what in the hell you're saying there. Hybrid fields, at least what I call hybrid fields, are woodland terrains that have additional buildup bunkers put into them. Man-made bunkers, cars, buildings, spools, anything like that. It's hardly a sup-air field, but it's not exactly virgin woods either.

And, yes, I play on unaltered woods too, but not as often. That's mainly becasue the trees here are second growth, for the most part, and it's rare to find a single tree wide enough to hide anyone behind. So they throw up a pallet to hide behind. Hence, hybrid.

And ghillie suits bounce paint from point blank range. It's why MOST fields don't allow them at all.

-Tyger

 

[Tyger]

Originally posted by warpd
The difference between the bad behavior on tourney teams, and the warlike image a lot of recballers portay paintball as, is that in any sport especially professional sports athletes are known for their bad behaviour on the field. Look at the NBA or NFL, I wouldn't say that just because some big tourney players act childish that makes the general public believe we are not a sport.

"Well, they do it, so it's ok that we do it too." That mentality can not justify bad bahavior.

Ultimately, it's the behavior of those who choose to place themselved on pedistals to be observed that reflects on the remainder of us who do not.

If you look at the NFL or NBA, those players get fined THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS for on-field tantrums. Rodman has been fined dozens of times. Hockey players get fined for vicious fights. NPPL players NEVER get fined. They get a slap on the wrist and told "Sit out X number of games." I'm a little jaded at this, but then again I think there needs to be harsher punishments.

Also, you can not dump the blame of public image on rec ball. Yes, a lot of us play rec, more than tournament. However, Tournament players claim to be the 'public' arm of the game. If this is indeed the case, then it's the responsibility of tournament players to be 10 times "better" than us lowly, rambo wanna bee rec players. Right?

-Tyger
(Hornets nest? What hornet's nest? What did I kick?)

 

[John Molloy]

Bad behaviour on a the field isn't just a tourney thing (though it is more noticable) I've seen close to fist fights at both types of events, more tourney than rec and I think its because the players are more charged with adrenalin cos their is more at stake. Thats also why sportsmen (and women) argue with refs doesn't matter what the sport or the chastisement, the mention of Rodman getting fined thousands of dollars for continuing bad behaviour he gets paid enough to cover that out going and players at Leeds United were fined 2 weeks wages for the same and their behaviour hasn't improved. Footballers face three match bans and this is no deterrant to them, Life bans are no deterrent as they play else where (and I can cite a case in Rugby Union where that did happen) At this time with players being Ameteur not truly Professional fines may work but when the barrier goes and people are paid proper money for playing then the deterrent will go.

 

[Tyger]

Originally posted by John Molloy
...At this time with players being Ameteur not truly Professional fines may work but when the barrier goes and people are paid proper money for playing then the deterrent will go.

Well, ot be honest, there's a loyt of things that need to happen. Like players need to eb out of hte rules committee, refs can't be players, and there needs to be a board of advisors, a comissioner wouldn't hurt....

But fines from players would really, really help. At least it would be showing that there's some accountability for behavior.

-Tyger

 

[Baca Loco]

Beyond the limit of legal fun

Buddha--can I call you Bud?
Do I hear a chorus of "We are the world" in the background? "Can't we all just get along?"

Apparently I wasn't clear (or you didn't read the other posts in this thread). I am a lot of things but an elitist ain't one of them. My point was simply that as things shake out in the wide world of paintball over time what people mean when they say "paintball" in the future will refer to the tourney/sport aspect and not the wood/ camo combat sim sort of game. That is, the non-playing public's frame of reference will be tourney oriented. I wasn't slinging any particular stones at anybody's preference in playing a game that involves paintball equipment--just stating an opinion on how things will eventually turn out, paintball-wise.

Have you ever witnessed Airsoft in action? I thought not. Geek is not a physical type--it's a state of mind.


Tyger, you old pussycat.
You make my point exactly. When you try to qualify woods fields as hybrid fields you are suggesting a hybrid field has the mixed characteristics of the woods and concept fields as if this mythical hybrid was required to justify playing in the woods at all. Fact is a paintball field in the woods is invariably a hybrid field and anybody but you means precisely that when they say "woods field."

As for playing ball in unaltered woods I'll just grab me a can of Redman, kiss my sister on the lips and join you. (Oops, was that elitist? Let's ask Buddha)

Moo

 

[John Molloy]

Originally posted by Tyger


Well, ot be honest, there's a loyt of things that need to happen. Like players need to eb out of hte rules committee, refs can't be players, and there needs to be a board of advisors, a comissioner wouldn't hurt....

But fines from players would really, really help. At least it would be showing that there's some accountability for behavior.

-Tyger

I couldn't agree more Tyger we realy are at the fledgling stage with this sport and we need to get those things in place. Probably the most important to me at least is a professional core of referee's preferably ex players who know all the tricks and won't take the B.S. that gets sent their way. That would also reduce the temper tantrums we see at tournies (not stop just reduce) of course no measure will stop this from happening but a couple of £30 fines at an event and at the next event a picture or the players name on a board so Refs know who to watch are all steps in the right direction.