A Question....

[KillerOnion]

Originally posted by Buddha 3
As a side note, is the problem the cheating itself, or the fact that it is allowed to happen?
People do not enter the field with the intent to cheat, but they cheat because the possibility presents itself.
I'm not trying to be too critical to the guys who do the reffing at the big tourneys, Lord knows these guys bust their humps all day, just so other people can have some fun. But 99.99% of them are players first and refs a very distant second. In the end it all boils down to the quality of the reffing debate again...
We need proper refs. People who are refs and nothing else. But it will be a looooooooong time before we will have enough of those.
But I'll guarantee you, once we get people on the job who are 'pro' refs, we will see a whole lot less cheating.

Later!

There exists but one problem with that as of yet and for the forseeable future: no one knows the game well enough from the outside. There isn't enough spectation or other learning of the game as it is for anyone to be in the position of a neutral, paid referee. Everyone that knows about the game either plays it or leaves it alone! It's hard to get anyone to watch a sport they don't have much of an understanding of--it wasn't until I saw a Millenium event, 3 years after I started playing, that I EVER saw anyone that wasn't either playing or dating/married to or son/daughter of someone playing. Think you can ask someone to go out and ref an unknown sport for money? 5...4...3...2...1...downloading reality in progress...NOT f$%&ING LIKELY.

 

[paintyerass]

BLAH BLAH BLAH some one should do this and someone else should do that, It all comes down to your own integrity, how would you like others to see you.
Do you care what other people think about you, does that influence your play (should it) or does what you think of yourself matter. If you can live with yourself, good for you but you also have the knowledge YOU HAD to CHEAT to beat the other guy.

 

[rancid]

Court?

Originally posted by Baca Loco


Is nothing real or true except it's proven in court? Just plain silly.



My point was, everyone takes blah blah as a cheat... it's like some irrefutable fact... as though it has been proven in court. As though it is written in stone; as though it is one of the paintball commandments...

I didn't anticipate you would take it so literally.

 

[Buddha 3]

Originally posted by KillerOnion


There exists but one problem with that as of yet and for the forseeable future: no one knows the game well enough from the outside. There isn't enough spectation or other learning of the game as it is for anyone to be in the position of a neutral, paid referee. Everyone that knows about the game either plays it or leaves it alone! It's hard to get anyone to watch a sport they don't have much of an understanding of--it wasn't until I saw a Millenium event, 3 years after I started playing, that I EVER saw anyone that wasn't either playing or dating/married to or son/daughter of someone playing. Think you can ask someone to go out and ref an unknown sport for money? 5...4...3...2...1...downloading reality in progress...NOT f$%&ING LIKELY.

Well duh!
Where did I ever say that we need refs from outside the scene?
I played a good number of sports in my life, and never have I had to deal with refs who became refs after having nothing to do with the sport concerned. Frankly, to me the whole concept is silly.
All I'm saying is that we need a reffing body, that has refs on the roster, not refs/players. Like I said it's going to be a long time coming, but I'd say ex-players could make good refs, or the parents of playing kids could ref in the peewee leagues, just like it's being done in som many other sports. After all, we keep clamouring to be accepted as a sport, so I'd say it's time to start doing things the way they do them in accepted sports.

 

[Robbo]

Re: Court?

Originally posted by rancid

Originally posted by Baca Loco

My point was, everyone takes blah blah as a cheat... it's like some irrefutable fact... as though it has been proven in court. As though it is written in stone; as though it is one of the paintball commandments...

I didn't anticipate you would take it so literally.

M, if I have learnt one thing on this board and that is, 'to expect the unexpected' and 'never take for granted, your post will be read in the manner it was written'.

Still, it does lead to some entertaining 'misunderstandings' shall we say
P

 

[Cenobite]

Just a thought that entered my head, Ive not thought it through in detail.

You know its almost a shame that more tournaments arent televised, and that those that have sufficient cameras could allow games to be reviewed if there was any suspicion of cheating.

Could it not be the case that a team caught on tape cheating could have points removed even after the game? It would certainly make people think twice if they knew it could be scrutinised later.

Of course cameras etc are expensive and few tournaments actually have them....

Matt.

 

[Cenobite]

And of course paintball I imagine can be incredibly difficult to film

 

[rancid]

Hey, I thought you were giving this board a break for a bit.

It's not so much the misunderstanding, it's the condecension... 'silly' ... that is upsetting.

But what about my point that this cheating is blown out of proportion. Manike's point - we've seen less from 3 feet than spectators 30ft away or you, as a player, at the other end of the pitch (or in your case, the deadzone).

 

[TJ Lambini]

people seem to be holding Lasoya up here

Cos he's one of the players Robo - and tha rest of the pball world - rave about, and because he was the centre of some alleged naughtiness that went on in Germany that got a load of boos from tha crowd and was also captured on video...some of tha Brits on this board have been passing round tha tape. I forget who and which thread deals with it...somewhere on tournament I think.

Is Lasoya a habitual cheat? Speaking from personal experience of playing against him and watching him play on numerous occasions, I ain't ever seen anything untoward and he's always acted in a sportsmanlike manner.


peace

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by rancid
Hey, I thought you were giving this board a break for a bit.

It's not so much the misunderstanding, it's the condecension... 'silly' ... that is upsetting.

But what about my point that this cheating is blown out of proportion. Manike's point - we've seen less from 3 feet than spectators 30ft away or you, as a player, at the other end of the pitch (or in your case, the deadzone).

Well, I'm gonna try and stay out of contentious and emotive threads and hopefully not get dragged into replying by people baiting me or trying to make a name for themselves.

Anyway, to answer your unemotive and less than contentious question; I honestly can't remember the last time I actually saw anybody cheat while I was playing but this in effect, really don't mean much as cheating by its very nature is covert.
My instinct tells me that cheating is blown out of all proportion, it is a convenient hook for some people to hang their anti-tournament / pro coat onto and as such people who read about cheating get a completely distorted and unjustified view.

We can all take the purist high ground but all that does is turn us into hypocrites and serves no purpose whatsoever.
Wiping is extremely difficult to do now and if you get caught, it's a virtual loss for your team there and then witht the resultant '3 for 1', let alone the negative stigma, you as a player consequently attract, so I think wiping is fast becoming extinct.
Playing on, is sometimes by its very nature a split second call, not only in terms of adjudication but also recognition by the player himself and therefore this area of the game tends to be exploited more and will never be eradicated.
Designer hot guns are now on the 'hot' agenda, so I think we will see a downturn in that area.
All in all, I think things are looking up and all we really have left is sporadic occurrences of bad behaviour, well if that's all we got left, we ain't doing that bad are we, despite what some people would have us believe !!!
Robbo