Whitch teams to play the exl???

[Robbo]

Originally posted by Wadidiz
Some of the "outlandish" ideas I was lambasted for, if you recall, was the idea that there would ever be an EXL with NXL involvement.

Steve, that truly was pathetic, is that all u got for a comeback ?
Are you seriously trying to take credit for that?????
Please say 'yes' and I will expose you in a heartbeat !

EDIT Oh, I have just noticed the smiley face, you were joking........................... weren't u????

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by Red_Merkin
Thanks Pete, that clarifies a few things.

I have the feeling that the American teams arn't going to be too happy about getting cut out of the Top League of Millennium Paintball being closed to them. I expect that Rodney's expression of feeling 'screwed over' after all the support that they gave to the series might be echoed by other yanks that supported the series last year, (Strange, BC, BushWackers, Avalanche, etc...)

Hey Col, I think it's pretty rich that Rodney should think he's been screwed over when all he did last year was come over and plunder our coffers for all the first prizes and was treated better than any other team I know
As Baca has succinctly put it, I think the EXL now has to be seen as a separate entity to the Millennium and as such, any European preparations for a European league should not even consider (by definition) any non Euro teams.
If Dynasty had elected to take up an NXL option, (and they still might do) how many tears do you think Rodney would have shed at the absence of any Euro teams ?
A big fat zero springs to mind
Rodders and his motley crew still have 5 events to come to and mop up, hardly the stuff of being screwed over.

Is the Millennium Series going to ignore some of it's best paying customers? Is it going to be worth it for the American Pros to travel to Europe to play Premiere League Ball ? And without the top euro pros playing in the Premiere League won't that make a massive jump in the level of competition between the Yank Pros, and the rest of the Euro Pros (ranked 9th and downward).

I think for the most part you are right but let's get this into some perspective here, there weren't that many Yank pro teams who regularly came across, Dynasty being the only team who made them all. Toulouse and Campaign had a handful each but let's not get carried away.
If and when they do come across they can play against all our regular pros in the tourneys that are not running Xball and the ones that are...well they can either come or not


It has been suggested that Campaign may be an EXL event next year. (i am sort of out of the loop, so I’m not quoting fact, just rumor) If so, what cause would Dynasty, Strange or any other top yank team have for coming over to play? They can't play the EXL, cause that's closed to them, so they play the Premiere League, against teams that really don't pose a serious challenge (not the kind that can beat them in the new Premiere Format, multiple games etc...). It's hard enough to get Yank teams to come and play over here, now we're relegating them to play 'amateur ball'? Maybe they'll be drawn by the easy pay cheque,...

I'd hardly say that an easy pay-day was an active deterrent for the Yanks
I have heard that the Campaign Cup might well be an EXL tourney and if it is, they got 5 others to go to, they shouldn't be so damn greedy

Please excuse if i'm overlooking something very obvious, i'm a bit out of the loop stuck over here in Canada... Have i missed something, or am i right in saying that this may be very good for the top 8 euro teams but really crap for the Millennium Series as a whole?

It's good for the top 8 yes but it's not really crap for the others, it's just different that's all.
I think teams like Hardcore have something to feel bad about but not much more than them really.
I think some people will make more of the differences in a negative way than others but hey, this is just the way things go sometimes.

 

[Wadidiz]

Originally posted by Robbo
Steve, that truly was pathetic, is that all u got for a comeback ?
Are you seriously trying to take credit for that?????
Please say 'yes' and I will expose you in a heartbeat !

Take credit for? I'm only saying that quite some months ago I said that I hoped for an EXL and that I thought it might be possible. I also suggested that it might be possible to have NXL participation. You responded to such suggestions with ridicule.

I'm not taking credit for the fact that it happened. It's just an example of one of those things you lambasted me for that ended up not being such an "outlandish" reality.

Go ahead and expose me!

Steve

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by Wadidiz
Take credit for? I'm only saying that quite some months ago I said that I hoped for an EXL and that I thought it might be possible. I also suggested that it might be possible to have NXL participation. You responded to such suggestions with ridicule.

I'm not taking credit for the fact that it happened. It's just an example of one of those things you lambasted me for that ended up not being such an "outlandish" reality.

Go ahead and expose me!

Steve

Yawn....as you well know the landscape has changed dramatically with Dick Clark's view of European paintball doing an about turn from what was thought at the time.

At the time you were trying to keep a job and to boost the idea of XBall and so you kept telling everybody NXL teams were coming.
In fact, Billy and Richmond had told me there wasn't going to be any NXL involvement and you only believed it when Rich Telford told you there was no way any of them were going to come across.
When you read that post, you held up the costmary white flag and deferred....

Since Dick Clark has now made it obvious Europe is something he is now interested in, it was only after Niall, Laurent and Baldrick had done their bit at the recent meeting in Toronto that we now have a 'proposed' involvement of NXL teams.
You can't take any credit for telling us anything Steve, don't even bother trying with it.
Circumstances have merely unfolded in a way you could never have expected or predicted, you just got lucky in terms of the propaganda you were spouting at the time.

None of these recent events were you instrumental in or did you predict so I fail to see how your sign off statement holds any water.

 

[Wadidiz]

Originally posted by Robbo
Yawn....
You can't take any credit for telling us anything Steve, don't even bother trying with it.

Circumstances have merely unfolded in a way you could never have expected or predicted, you just got lucky in terms of the propaganda you were spouting at the time.

None of these recent events were you instrumental in or did you predict so I fail to see how your sign off statement holds any water.

I'll repeat, I am by no means taking credit for anything and I don't claim to have made any difference in any of this.

For the sake of discussion I brought up a long conversation I had with Laurent about the future of Millennium vis-à-vis NXL. Many of the concepts about the difference between Europe and North America were discussed as well as the question of how things could possibly be arranged to get NXL teams over. Laurent felt from HIS contacts that there MIGHT be a way to get NXL participation. Richard Telford said that they wouldn't be coming over because they didn't have the money. So I quit the discussion as it was already a ridiculous waste of time, like this one is. Besides there were elements of my conversation with Laurent that I wasn't at liberty to discuss.

Here is one excerpt from one of my posts:
_____________________________
There is obviously a lot still to be decided but the indications I get from my conversations with Laurent and Mike Ratko is there is going to be some serious X Ball in Europe. And Laurent believes like me that we can get Americans over here SEASON 2004 in some kind of way....
_________________________

All I wanted to do at the time was DISCUSS some ideas of what EXL MIGHT be like, which you ridiculed me for, because you can't accept anyone even hinting at "knowing" something you don't know (not that I did know anything, I was just inspired by the bright insight Laurent gave me). Kind of the same way you have an overwhelming tendency to brow-beat, ridicule or character-assassinate anyone you don't agree with.

So, I'll shut up about these matters now since this petty bull**** has to be an annoyance to the readers of this thread. But if anyone, I don't care who, attacks my integrity, intelligence or motivations, I will defend myself. I've nothing to hide nor am I going to be a doormat to disrespect.

 

[gaff]

EXL lockins!

my 2p worth.....

i have been thinking about this lockin of teams in the EXl and i have come to the following belief....

i think all teams should be playing next season for their 2005 spot, as there are alot of unknowns about next season, you have strong rosters on some teams that go as deep as 14, but others with a strong roster of 7 with 7 'unknowns' and you also have teams with hardly any 'pro' experience in the 8. you have teams that are going to be good from the start and others that may take a while to get to their feet, and probably 1 or 2 that will never find their feet, these teams spots i should be availbale to any teams that have shown they deserve them (even if it means a qualifying tourney or something).

i agree that the league should represent the best of europe whether that be 4 brit teams + 4 others, or 4 scandinavian teams + others this is the only way we can bring our continental level up to compete over the atlantic.

but i feel that if at the end of 2004 we have teams that are realy being hammered in the EXL and teams playing 'superleague' or Div 1 that are carving it up then there should be some way to allow a reshuffle at the end of next season (for the good and success of the league when tv does arrive!)

this proposal/idea is only meant as a way of getting 'the best teams in Europe truely' right for when franchises and tv deals are actually on the table.

it would also give teams like Hardcore the chance to shine next season and get their just rewards. it will also serve to make the teams that are currently invited to stay on their toes and keep their places.

 

[sjt19]

Originally posted by Red_Merkin

It has been suggested that Campaign may be an EXL event next year. (i am sort of out of the loop, so i'm not quoting fact, just rumor) If so, what cause would Dynasty, Strange or any other top yank team have for comming over to play? They can't play the EXL, cause that's closed to them, so they play the Premiere League, against teams that really don't pose a serious challenge

No they cant col, cos they are only playing EITHER EXL or 7 Man Super League at the 9 MS events next year, so Dynasty wont be at CC if it is a EXL event

 

[Mak D - Nexus Eclipse]

Officialy the longsest post in (insert cheesy deep echo) > ''the entire universe''< .

I just read the whole thing ...... and it hurts man

But will be good to see just how all this goes

Roll on 2004

Mak D

 

[Robbo]

Pete

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
Actually Steve DOES have a point here.... although most chose to ignore it, for fear of undergoing the "Robbo treatment"

You have a SLIGHT tendency to ridicule people when you disagree with their views..... and I distinctly remember you ridiculing Steve for saying an EXL might still happen in 2004 - with NXL participation.



Nick

Nick I would be more inclined to agree with you about any points being made if Steve had predicted or inferred or even hinted at any of the changes that have happened recently with regard to Dick Clark and XBall that have led to this NEW proposal.
His referral to NXL team participation inferred he was right all along, he could never have known what was going to happen, he never had an inkling of what was going on or what was going to happen and therefore his referral is pointless, it has no meaning outside of circumstance.
And as for the 'Robbo treatment' deterring others from commenting; people like Budha, Red Merkin, and many others would not bat an eyelid from telling me I was being a jerk if I was but you may have a point, I don't honestly know, I hope you ain't right.
Anyway, even if you are right Nick (not about Steve having a point, I mean about people being detered), Steve's still a jerk sometimes who has his head up his ass on occasion.

Oh and Steve, just to clarify something for me and some others, will you, in your proposed role in the EXL, have any direct dealings with the teams invovled and their captains / coaches and if so, please outline what you think your responsibilities are?

 

[Baca Loco]

Various

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
1--Are you kidding Paul ?

2--So, your stance is that if the pool of players double in paintball, it will be a bad thing, because Joe Blow who was previously in the 70-80 percentage skillswise, is now in the 50-60 percentage (for instance) ?

3--BTW - I never said the positive influence would be immidiate - if you think that is my belief, you have misunderstood me.

4--The benefits of extensive media coverage of the top of paintball will be long term - (things take time trickling down you know ) - and the longer the perspective, the more beneficial it will be to the lower end of paintball.

5--That might ofcourse be a bad thing if you are a 40 year old Am B player, who will not be around to participate when the positive effects start to manifest themselves at that level, but does that make it a bad thing for paintball ?

6--What would you suggest as a better route for paintball to take, to faster achieve the goals most anyone agree with (more players, more media, more money, more events, etc.) ?

Nick

1--not this time. But perhaps we're not so far apart as it seemed before.
2--I'm not saying it's bad or good, it is what it is, but it is also one of your "impacts" and as such it will dramatically change the opportunities for a significant number of today's tourney players.
3--everything in your previous posts seemed to suggest that. If not, my bad.
4--I agree generally with the long term benefit BUT my point all along have been directed to the short term upheaval.
5--chances are if you're a 20 year old Am B today you're out of luck. More about the positive/negative in a sec. *
6--frankly, I don't believe in shortcuts. It's gonna take however long it takes. Will the decisions taken today be for the best? Who knows. Nobody can do any more than the best they can do.
As to the goals you listed I think everyone thinks they'll be great in general but very few seem to have considered what the specific results will be short to longer term. (I did, however, a few pages ago suggest a way for the MS to go that would ultimately
lay the foundation for a more Euro-style sports federation. Whether thats the best choice or not I couldn't say.)

* my only issue with any of this is the same issue I (sorta) have with the PSP. And that is the folks looking to launch their Pro Leagues are using the existing pay-to-play crowd to get it done when, in fact, the NXL and/or the EXL have nothing whatsoever to do with the old tourney series. But as long as the PSP and the MS deliver events teams feel reflect value it's all good.

There is also, to my way of thinking anyway , an implied benefit in all this hoopla to those mass of teams and players that "support" these changes. Hence all my posts about when those "benefits" are likely to really take effect.

Beyond all that is the psychological impact of separation on all the teams and players "left behind" if and when REAL Pro Leagues take off.

None of the above is insurmountable or probably avoidable but it's worth talking about. Or not.