Whitch teams to play the exl???

[tukisilva]

By Nick:
.....I think you are assuming a little TOO much responsibility, when claiming to speak for 80+ teams AND saying that the EXL will mean we lose ground to the US teams.

But hey.... maybe you DO in fact speak on behalf of all the 80+ teams AND the EXL teams ??

If so, I bow down low, and accept the wisdom of the most influencial person in European paintball.

P.S. - Can you please get all those teams to join the EPA ?

P.P.S. - Can we please get those arguments out of the table ?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Hey Nick

Yes I agree with you, I was way out of line assuming that much. Sorry.

But can you get the meaning of it ?
Can you honestly say that when you speak with the “little fish” they agree with your points of view?
Or are just the “big sharks” that are happy with this deal?
Sure IF (and I repeat IF coz I don’t believe X-Ball it’s a more attractive TV game then Paintball) the EXL put our sport on TV, and bring us all the exposure we hope, it would be wonderful and I would bow at your feet in the Portuguese and Spanish events. But I think we (MS) are risking too much on a IF, and putting aside to many people that are the real feeders of the Series.

P.S.- I already did my share for the EPA back home. People just don’t care about it. It’s difficult to involve the players in the Regional and National League, so you can imagine how they feel about the European discussion…shame on us.

P.P.S.- No way man. I have the right to argue for what I believe its the best.

Good luck for the Berlin Ducklings

Cheers

 

[Wadidiz]

Do I have to break it down for you?

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
I have nothing against US teams participating...I just don't want it to be at the expense of Euro teams or what we are trying to achieve with the EXL.

I totally agree with that statement.

I DO agree. They should be brought in at their own expense, not at the expense of the Euro teams.

I just think some more US teams should be included, especially Dynasty, Strange and a couple of more non-NXL teams, for their sake and OURS. WE get some of the best ballers to throw ourselves against for significant prize money, we get an event that is more saleable and they get the chance to travel, play tough competitors and go for prizes.

And I think it's great to have two NXL teams. Great for them, great for us. How? WE get the undoubtably best X Ballers to throw ourselves against for significant prize money, we get an event that is more saleable and they get the chance to travel, play tough competitors and go for prizes.

But more importantly, a couple of more Euroteams should definitely be included if they have the resources to make the commitment.

When I wrote earlier about tournaments being practice, I spoke about the number of preliminary games, which hasn't so much to do with winning. It's how much game time you put in that was the issue.

It is true that tournaments are at once serious business--maximize the return on investment--AND serious practice. Because there ain't no better way of learning than by doing the real thing as often as possible.

If the ratio Euro:American is 11:5, then it is still overwhelmingly European. And the Euroteams are in the ability-league to compete and win often in this environment.

I can't imagine a more interesting, exciting and competitive constellation than what I've described. And it would be WIN, WIN for all involved. For those Euroteams that cut the mustard and don't want to hide, that is.

It'll probably end up 8 but I don't understand why you don't see the advantage of a little more openness.

BTW An 8-team double-elimination tournament would be very relaxed to schedule and run over three days. A 16-team tournament would very tight with a need for early and relatively late games and cutting some of the game time. (Wonder if 15-minute halves with 90 second time-outs would be the optimal time? Games could start every hour instead of 1hr 30min.)

 

[Buddha 3]

STEVE ??????????????????

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
Jay:

It's too late to discuss a different format than X-Ball - that IS decided upon !

Nick

You misunderstood my post. It is not so much the X-Ball that doesn't appeal to me, it is the whole deal. Eight teams in a league, is not a league, it's a joke. And given the geographic spread of these teams, it's a big joke that few people will actually give a flying rat's ass about. Three teams from the UK, three from Scandinavia, one from Russia, and one from France. The only reason I and some people I talk to would go and watch it, is because we are paintballers, and we just want to see quality ball. No Joe Schmoe from Googooland will not be interested at all, because it's a sport he doesn't know, and it's about places that are a wee far from his home. You can bet this guy will have the remote ready before the game on hooter has honked (sorry, just had to get that sentence in).
In this format it just won't work. Which is a crying shame, because initially the whole thing was kickstarted by a person with shedloads of business sense (Sergei) and it seems as though it has now been taken away from him by people with a lot less sense of business.
I'm a paintballplayer, so I have at least some marginal interest in this, yet at this point the whole EXL is just not that interesting to me. You're not playing the sport I am, you are in a non-league, and you come from places that I have little to non connection to. Take away the paintballplayer part of me, and why should I care? ****, include the paintballplayer part of me, and you'll realise that instead of seeing more great paintball, I'll likely be seeing less, as some of the big US guns like Dynasty will not be here as often, while they represent arguably the best ball in the world, who do happen to play in the same format as I do (Not saying there shouldn't be any X-Ball, but if you want the EXL, there should also be X for the masses).

Now I'm getting tired of repeating myself, but it seems as though a lot of people choose to ignore this point because it scares them too much or something, THINK BUSINESS!!!
It's about getting paintball to the public. The public ain't in the UK solely, and it damn skippy ain't in Scandinavia (no offense meant at all, that's just the way it is, just like Holland is overly crowded, yet so small we still don't count). If you want to stick to eight teams, at least have them come from places that make sense. Jeez, Germany is not included in the list, while at the moment it is the largest European market for paintball, despite it's harsh laws!!! Wake up and get a whiff of the coffee!
A more sensible list would be something like this:

France: One team.
Scandinavia: One team (representing the whole subcontinent).
Russia: One team.
Germany: Two teams.
Spain: One team.
Italy: One team.
England: One team.
Although I'd be willing to shift one team from Germany to England, if only to maintain world peace .

As it is now, you have two subcontinents, Scandinavia and the UK, representing 75% of the teams, while one of these subcontinents is so sparsely populated it is hardly interesting from a mass televised point of view. Yet this subcontinent is home to 37.5% of the teams within the league. What the f*ck were we thinking?
Yeah, good luck pulling in the big sponsors... I can see Coca Cola wiping the tears of laughter from the corners of their eyes while putting their wallets away.

The initial thinking behind it was good, yet it seems that with the pressure put on some people some brains have popped a gasket and started going all funny like.

Now please understand I am not a hater. I wish nothing but the best for any of the teams involved and I feel bad for the guys that just missed the cut. As I see it, whatever is good for paintball, will in the end be good for me. I may not play on a pro squad, but in the end I am paintball just as much as any of us, simply because I too put the limited resources that I have into trying to be as good at it as possible. I just fear that this will be anything but the way forward...

 

[Mak D - Nexus Eclipse]

Hey man I dont get why so many peeps are hatin. This is gonna great for everyone man, if this IS the pathway to gettin Euro ball on tv then everyone is gonna benfit man. Alright maby not rite away but in time its gonna pay off.
But hey can't please everyone can u!

Mak Dad

 

[Christian-Malera]

Hi Nick

I will have a go at explaining why I figured it to be the same .

I took it for granted that Supaleaque is where teams get promoted from to play Exl.

"The Supaleaque is supposed to be about finding the best 2-4-? Supaleaque teams to be promoted to Exl.

With EXL teams in the mix, two things happen:

Some Supaleaque teams will get knocked out when they wouldn't have been at each event, purely because the Exl teams are there.

And

If Exl teams took 1st and 2nd place (and 3rd, 4th, etc. - if more attended), it would be close to impossible in the double elimination scheme, to deduct fairly how to place the Supaleauque teams at the event, and give them Series points.

Now, I am not saying it will happen (hopefully not) - but saying it is not a remote possibility to have this problem at several events.

I think the Supaleaque should be Supaleaque teams only !

Christian inspired by Nick
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[Buddha 3]

Mak,

That's just the whole point. This might NOT be the way for paintball to get on TV... If it is, I'll be happy too, but I have serious doubts.

Nick,

You seem to miss the whole point. It's not about the following paintball has at the moment. If two people live in a country and they both play ball, that's 100%. Wow! But it's still only two people, get it?
Another example. American football is the second smallest official sport in Holland, only curling has a smaller number of league members. Yet the Amsterdam Admirals is one of the few NFL Europe teams that makes any money.

Okay, perhaps Italy might be a bad example, I don't know the laws there, but my point still stands. It is about selling paintball to the masses, to new people, people who know f*ck all about it. What you suggest is preaching to the converted. What's the point in that? Where lies the expansion there? Nowhere...
If you wanna stick to your argument, why does Russia get a team then? As good as nobody plays paintball there. I include them because they are a humongazoid country, probably the largest TV market in Europe, plus they got a great team, so it's a great target market. The fact that very few people play there matters not, it might even be good, because you'll be able to educate the people more.

Scandinavia is included as one target audience simply because of the numbers game. There's some huge countries up there in the grim north, but none of them has a population bigger than, for instance, Holland. Be happy you got included at all .

I can see your motivations for sticking up for the current teams, after all, if it went the way I suggested you run the risk of getting excluded.
Don't get me wrong, with the teams in the running now, it could be a league that has some great competition. But will it mean the birth and growth of paintball in Europe? Nah.... It'll be just another league that only paintballers (including you and me by default) will care about and/or have an opinion about. The rest of Europe will remain blissfully ignorant, simply because they will be out of reach.

We try to act all business like when it comes to selecting the teams. We all go "Yeah, I feel sorry for Hardcore and Storm and so on missing the cut, but hey...". But we still think inside our comfort zone. We fail to think outside of the box. We all go "Ooh, pick Joy, they are good, and paintball is pretty popular in Sweden". Think...if paintball were popular with 10% of the people in Sweden, and only with 2% of the people in Germany, I'd sell it to the Krauts at the drop of a dime. Why? Because in Sweden you are talking about less then 900.000 people, since Sweden has a population of about 8.900.000 people (Holland has over 16 million!). While in Germany it would be 1.660.000, because they have a population of somewhere around 83 million souls. Every percent of marketshare increase would mean about ten times as many people as it would in Sweden. I know where my money would go.
Suddenly Berlin Ducklings doesn't sound too bad, does it?

 

[Christian-Malera]

Hi Nick

I have tried to get that confirmed no one has done that so I just asumed it.

But if that's the case do you agree?

 

[Christian-Malera]

If that is the case.....

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
....I agree completely !

Unfortunately, I don't think it is the case.

I have heard everyone talking about the EXL as "closed" - so my thinking is that means no promotion/relegation.

But - I don't KNOW !

Nick

I fear that it will be a closed thing to.

If this is the case the Millenium board should confirm it NOW! I think some top AmA teams will consider to "take their business" elsever if this is confirmed.

 

[tukisilva]

By Nick:
“Same goes for you - let's just agree to disagree.
Because - after having read all your posts in this thread, it is still unclear to me what it is you are unhappy about !”

-> All I want it’s the best possible service, and the best available teams. But lets stop arguing about this coz we are repeating ourselves to many times.

Nick
“I'm all for developing markets - but you don't increase awareness of paintball in Spain, by giving them an EXL spot where their team gets the **** kicked out of them time and time again.”

-> At the 7 Man World Cup in Toulouse (2003), Portugal lost 8-9 against France.
You can give a spot to peninsula Iberia (Portugal + Spain) Now im just being selfish…

Cheers and lets wait for some Official details.

 

[Buddha 3]

No Jay

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
You could then affiliate a top team to the market...... but - although the Berlin Ducklings sound good, there has to be SOME form of connection to the "home town" - you can't have an entire team of danes, living in Copenhagen, representing Berlin...... and yes - I am aware that Amsterdam Admirals are more or less all US players... but they play IN Amsterdam, in front of Amsterdam crowds !
I think you are jumping ahead a couple of steps.

I'm not jumping ahead, I fear some people fail to see all the steps.

I agree with the explanation you give in the above quote, which is one of the major problems this league will face, as the NXL does at the moment. As long as the teams don't get to strut their stuff at "home", connection with the public, and therefore interest, will only be marginal. And ofcourse I realise the logistical problems affiliated with dumping a team in a place where they are not from, and I never advocated forming teams from the current squads in the areas concerned,because that would leave some teams immensely strong, and others very weak. However, we wanna be a real sport, treat it as such! Have a franchise, and get the players to sign contracts. The people that play for the New York Giants ain't all from New York (although I will give you that most of them will speak English). Buy and trade players if you wanna be real.
Seems like now all that's happening is that people think "Oh well, we'll just take the best teams, glue on a city name, et voila, job's a good'un..."
Like I said, that way paintball will not grow much. The only way citynames will work is if we really play in those places.

Oh well, I know where I'm coming from, and I know that unfortunately a lot of marketing departments of the big money companies will agree with me, but I wish you all the succes that you guys, and all the other teams deserve. I don't think that any amount of reasoning will sway you from your viewpoint. But if you ever want to borrow my copy of "Sprechen Sie Deutsch", you know where to find me...