Whitch teams to play the exl???

[sjt19]

Originally posted by Red_Merkin
It actually has very little to do with who is the best, but rather with who puts on the best show.

Largely are they not one and the same? The top teams are often the most marketable, as their talent has propelled them into a marketable team. I cant think of a team that are not capable of putting on a great show that are hugely marketable, and vice versa there are few teams, if any, that are capable of putting on a great show but have the marketability value of a pair of soiled pants.

Merry Xmas Col

 

[Red_Merkin]

Largely are they not one and the same

largely yes, but take the Ducklings for example, who struggle to make the top 8 in ranking points yet remain a popular team, and well marketed the team, and supported by Smart Parts.

The point is that if you have the choice between two teams that are almost equal in ranking and ability, you want to chose the ones that have more personality and bring more to the league than being just another team. Teams need to take a page from the book of Nexus about promoting their team. Nexus (in my opinion) are no more marketable than any other team, but the difference is that each member of the team does whatever they can to support their local paintball community, and to promote their sponsors. TonTons, do the same, and they're a huge brand as a result, same with Joy Division, and Russian Legion.

(happy Christmas Sam)

 

[sjt19]

Originally posted by Red_Merkin
Teams need to take a page from the book of Nexus about promoting their team. Nexus (in my opinion) are no more marketable than any other team

I suspect that Pete's help and the backing of PGI through the magazine exposure helps too though Col.....

 

[Red_Merkin]

Sam, you're right, it Pete's influence with PGI does make a huge difference, but coverage and media by any means possible is part of what makes a team marketable...

Nick, if you want any chance of competing with the Yanks when you get the this World X-ball league final, you need to play against the best competition, and you can't get that without playing against the Yanks.
You need them to raise the bar. An all Euro X-ball League is bad for both the teams playing, and spectators.

 

[Baca Loco]

Stuff I would consider if I was in charge

Originally posted by Robbo
Paul, I agree with everything you just posted; as Steve suggested, an insightful analysis !

I think after such an intelligent appraisal, I might have wanted some conclusions or directives you might suggest as the best way to go...

Okay, Pete.
Here's a few observations and ideas for both the EXL and MS.

For EXL--
1. choose the 8 initial teams on their franchise-ability. Who can afford ongoing commitment and how do those teams fit into a promotional scheme to market the EXL? Second factor is quality of play to validate exclusivity of league. (Unfortunately the hard truth here is what came before and what the MS will do after isn't all that relevant.)
2. Why is the EXL a double elimination tourney like Divisional XBall and contrary to the NXL? If it's about the prize money there is no guarantee that the teams that need it are gonna get it. Since the entry money is going to be returned to the teams anyway you'd be better off subsidizing the financially-challenged teams and operating the EXL in a manner consistent with the NXL.
(One of the problems with the first season of NXL despite the cooperation of the mags was its disconnectedness from everything else that was going on at events. So, bring in the NXL teams and schedule the US vs. Euro matches as non-scoring feature matches each day between morning and afternoon sessions at midday to bring in a big crowd that isn't competing with the rest of the tournament. That way EXL has a higher on site profile and maintains event to event buzz.)

For MS--(This is my ideal MS btw)
1. scrap the SupaLeague (at least for now). Nothing to do with format or its prospects but since the concept was to offer an alternative to XBall there's no good reason to do it right now. Events stay 7-man with option to run the way NPPL does.
2. Current proposed changes actually fit nicely into a number of things I'd consider. Re-named competition categories is a good thing. Promotion and relegation has merit, too. As does the addition of more MS-sanctioned events. To those I'd add standardized entry; one price for MS events and one price for MPS. [see below]
3. What I'd do with that is announce asap how the 2005 season is going to be organized so teams know what to expect, what to play for, and to get used to the changes now so it won't be a huge issue later on. Here's how the '05 season will work: 10 events divided into 5 Millennium Premier Series events and 5 MS events. Two seasonal circuits. MPS events are Divisions 1-4. MS events are Divisions 5-8. Promotion and relegation in divisions 1-4 is progressively more difficult (fewer teams move between 1 and 2 than between 3 and 4, for example) and there is also promo/relegation between 4 and 5. MPS divisions are static with a fixed number of teams [excepting the possibility of discretionary merit slots]. Divisions 5-8 in MS events are open with qualifications. The result is it's easy for better teams to move quickly thru the lower divisions. Once the system is in place all teams have to earn their place and work to keep their place. The system also accommodates teams that only play occasional events. All competition takes place within the assigned division.
4. This satisfies a number of growing problems at least for awhile. One--events getting too big for the format. (Answer: more events and a reason that justifies having them to the teams and players.) Two--lays foundation for a more Euro-style league construction should EXL fail or even in addition to the EXL. Three-creates a natural standard and formula that "professionalizes" tourney ball top to bottom. Builds in a competitive structure that replaces "playing the pros" as a reason to compete.

There's a broad outline.

 

[Itchy]

How about...

Instead of 10 events, you have 5 events, but have the 5-8 divisions on the first weekend and the 1-4 divisions on the second weekend? There's diseconomy of scale (events get too big) that you don't want, but there's also economy of scale (more teams per setup/takedown/travel) that you do want. You'd have a few days of dead time in between, but that sure beats setting up and taking down twice.

Also, why 4 divisions? Maybe 3 and 3 instead of 4 and 4? Eight total divisions seems like quite a lot. Honestly, the current four seem like too many. Why is anything other than "New Teams", "Pro Teams" and "Everyone Else" needed for a continent-wide series? Do we really need SIX "Everyone Else" divisions? I think the function you're trying to assign to divisions 5-8 would be better served by national level leagues as opposed to contintental level leagues. There just isn't that wide a variety of skill in teams willing to travel to 5 events over a year.

When you say no premiere series this year, are you saying that there's only DI/II/III, or that Pro is just regular 7-man like it is with NPPL?

Although I really do like the Premiere format.

Double elimination format is to accomodate NXL teams as you mentioned. The prize money is to make them coming over worth their time, as the NXL certainly is not looking to add more expenses into their already expensive startup efforts. NXL teams are not going to come over for exhibition matches unless there's prize money or they're just paid outright. And as was the complaint with nation's cup - are EXL teams going to want to put any effort into exhibition matches when they have real matches to win?

 

[Wadidiz]

Col

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
I have nothing against US teams participating...I just don't want it to be at the expense of Euro teams or what we are trying to achieve with the EXL.

I totally agree with that statement.

If I were a captain or manager of a Euro pro team one the highest priorities I would have would be for my team to play against the best teams in the world, for significant prize money, as often as possible. First I would want to do it at as many tournaments as possible on THIS CONTINENT. Then, if the budget allowed, I would want to play in America (some Division 1).

My 16-team (10-11 EXL teams, 2 NXL + 3-4 guests) proposal is better for Euro pros in several ways:

1. It provides a higher level of competition thus giving Euro teams a chance to develop their skills DURING the season, not wait until the play-offs when it is too late.

2. It divides the cost of the competition over more teams resulting in economy of scale.

3. It makes the tournaments more attractive for everyone which will help make the tournaments more successful (which will help players, promoters, vendors and the local economy). It will also provide more interesting video material IMO.

So what if the "guests" win some of the prize money. There will be some way EXL can gather points for their series.

Itchy observed that maybe EXL is the place where Euro pros hide from Dynasty. As we learned long ago playing rec-ball, hiding is no way to win.

Steve

 

[Buddha 3]

Just feel like saying that in the current form, and as a spectator, the EXL holds very little appeal to me. I'm not really interested in seeing the same small group of teams (let's face it, 8 teams is not a league, it's a club, in the same way that the NFL Europe is laughable) at every event, playing the same game that lasts too long (which I feel is an issue in the current X-Ball format that needs to be addressed real soon).
There are a number of teams in the EXL that I like watching, but not for an hour in a row, against the same opponent. One of the things I like about regular paintball is watching the likes of Russian Legion and seeing how they play against team X, and make short work of them. I don't need to see that game re-run 15 times in a row.
X-Ball is no more a spectator sport than regular paintball (in my opinion), probably even less in it's current form. Combine that with the bad placement of many of the teams (business wise), and the result is a league that is hardly significant if you want to sell paintball to television. It'll be a sidenote in Spain, Italy, Germany, Poland, and a host of other nations with considerable audiences, missing out on some major business...

Shame really.

Personally I think these issues are far more important than who gets to play and who doesn't. I understand this must hurt for a few teams out there, but making this thing succeed or fail is somewhat bigger than maintaining the Old Boys Network.

That said, even though I fall asleep watching X-Ball, I'd like to play it though.

 

[Christian-Malera]

Just got in.....

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
....Phew - SOME read-up !

I'd just like to say - before someone with real influence become infatuated with the whole "bring in US teams" idea:

The EXL is supposed to be about finding the best 4 Euro teams to go to the World Series and play the best 4 US teams.

With US teams in the mix, two things happen:

Some Euro teams will get knocked out when they wouldn't have been at each event, purely because the US teams are there.

And

If US teams took 1st and 2nd place (and 3rd, 4th, etc. - if more attended), it would be close to impossible in the double elimination scheme, to deduct fairly how to place the Euro teams at the event, and give them Series points.

Now, I am not saying it will happen (hopefully not) - but saying it is not a remote possibility to have this problem at several events.

I think the EXL should be Euro teams only !

Nick

Hi Nick

Replace US teams with EXL teams in Supaleaque and you have the same problem don't you?

 

[tukisilva]

Hey guys, and a rest of nice Christmas.

Im glad more voices join the debate, especially coz I was starting to get tired of banging against a wall.

The arguments are in the table. Some are pro US, and some want an exclusive E club.
It’s funny that the voices against US are from Teams already IN EXL, maybe afraid of losing the big prizes…(maybe)
And the rest of us common mortals, that only care about the spectacularaty of the sport, and having the best possible tournaments.

The simple question is, should the board please the hopes and interests of 8 elite Teams, or just the 80 poor Teams that pay for those 8 teams to be what they are?

For me the answer is simple, we need the US teams to improve the spectacle, to increase the possibility of expose, to bring more public and players to the sport, and because some US Teams (like Dynasty, Strange, etc…) deserve to play with us after all they made in the Series last season.

To have a close EXL will only put us even farther from the US game level so its not an intelligent argument, although I understand the essence of it I just cant agree with that.

Unfortunally, as always, the little voices don’t getter and fight for the right of the best possible service for their money, so the will of the few but stronger elite Teams will survive and go ahead.

Cheers

P.S.- When should we expect some official release about these subjects?