Bad news about tha ol' back Pete.
money, money, money got any spare?
wish the boys good luck from us
money, money, money got any spare?wish the boys good luck from us
What Happens To Euro Paintball If....
- Thread starter Robbo
- Start date
X-ball, or at least an X-ball based format, needs to stay up there at the forefront of tourney paintball, purely for the skillset it required to be successful at it, and the speed at which X-ball participating teams seem to gain these skills.
This format seems to have single handedly altered the base level at the higher end of the paintball spectrum, in terms of skills, in both in Euroland and the US. Maybe the key for Euroball is to make an X-ball style format affordable to all who want it.
The main cost is paint, right? So limit the paint (not talking about per set-play, but per match, per team - thus creating possibilities for more interesting match-strategies, perhaps??)
Leave the US to it. We (ie, the entire paintballing world) need the NPPL/PP to concentrate all their energies on breaking paintball out to the masses. Let them do it in 2005, then we can reap the rewards in 2006 with the skills earned through all the X-ball we've been practicing in Euroland, and have a gaggle of teams all itching to unleash their new skills on some unsuspecting 7-man-only US teams.
Don't listen to me. I'm just a spectator. X-ball rocks more than 7-man to a spectator....... although 7-man best of 3 finals rock equally as well... maybe more so - but 7-man prelims are nothing compared to entire X-ball prelims for a spectator.
And Robbo - Mt Olympus is quite high dude... and your eyesight - well, you aint getting any younger, are ye???
D.
This format seems to have single handedly altered the base level at the higher end of the paintball spectrum, in terms of skills, in both in Euroland and the US. Maybe the key for Euroball is to make an X-ball style format affordable to all who want it.
The main cost is paint, right? So limit the paint (not talking about per set-play, but per match, per team - thus creating possibilities for more interesting match-strategies, perhaps??)
Leave the US to it. We (ie, the entire paintballing world) need the NPPL/PP to concentrate all their energies on breaking paintball out to the masses. Let them do it in 2005, then we can reap the rewards in 2006 with the skills earned through all the X-ball we've been practicing in Euroland, and have a gaggle of teams all itching to unleash their new skills on some unsuspecting 7-man-only US teams.
Don't listen to me. I'm just a spectator. X-ball rocks more than 7-man to a spectator....... although 7-man best of 3 finals rock equally as well... maybe more so - but 7-man prelims are nothing compared to entire X-ball prelims for a spectator.
And Robbo - Mt Olympus is quite high dude... and your eyesight - well, you aint getting any younger, are ye???
D.
Sergey was, and still is, convinced that XBall is the way to go.
This belief led him to think that there was no way XBall in Europe would fail for 2005 or at least the NXL would flourish and he could then go to play in the US if the EXL faltered.
I think he has somewhat changed his mind about which way XBall is going.
The root cause of Sergey's decision not to play NPPL and thereby pick up his 2005 7-man option was that he did not want to train two formats or have his players have the mindset of playing two.
He wanted to concentrate 100% on XBall and if you look at the way his guys play, it's testament to the man as to what is achievable when you focus resources.
I doubt now he can be wild-carded into the NPPL, though for the NPPL, it would be a smart move for marketing purposes (especially in the US) it wouldn't however go down too well with the 18 teams who sweated blood and money in getting their spots.
The RL are in Limbo at the moment and Sergey will if he can, pick up the NXL option if it's available next year.
There are and have been continuing talks between the NXL and RL so if they do go over, it's not as if it's a surprise or anything.
Col : to keep the EXL alive, it has to be funded mate, both at promoter level and at team level. Nick makes a valid point in bringing in media coverage, what sponsor is gonna back an EXL team to the hilt just to watch the NPPL mop up in the magazines, it ain't gonna happen.
The EXL wouldn't have all the top teams and thereby render it relatively unattractive to report on.
I agree 100% with you that XBall is by far the best format to play and watch but XBall is at the moment held hostage by the NXL and its attendant limitations.
The only thing that saves the EXL in any coherent form is this, Dick Clark (or whoever) starts filming in 2005 and some of that dosh begins to flow eastward in 2005, no longer timescale is gonna hack it.
If teams over here were better sponsored or financed, perhaps we could hang around a little longer but we ain't, it's as simple as that mate.
Nick As I told you yesterday, I wouldn't run away with this whole idea that once you play XBall you are turned into superballers. Infamous got 8th place in Toulouse, my Nexus feeder team got fifth, they ain't ever played XBall...you get my point.
I ain't biggin' up what Nexus Eclipse achieved, they did what they did, but let's not get carried away with this whole idea that XBall is the only way forward for players to improve.
They can fast track their way to excellence if they train correctly as Nexus feeder team has shown and this does not necesaarily include XBall.
Gareth Cheers mate, much appreciated !
PS Back is improving and has finally stopped bleeding
This belief led him to think that there was no way XBall in Europe would fail for 2005 or at least the NXL would flourish and he could then go to play in the US if the EXL faltered.
I think he has somewhat changed his mind about which way XBall is going.
The root cause of Sergey's decision not to play NPPL and thereby pick up his 2005 7-man option was that he did not want to train two formats or have his players have the mindset of playing two.
He wanted to concentrate 100% on XBall and if you look at the way his guys play, it's testament to the man as to what is achievable when you focus resources.
I doubt now he can be wild-carded into the NPPL, though for the NPPL, it would be a smart move for marketing purposes (especially in the US) it wouldn't however go down too well with the 18 teams who sweated blood and money in getting their spots.
The RL are in Limbo at the moment and Sergey will if he can, pick up the NXL option if it's available next year.
There are and have been continuing talks between the NXL and RL so if they do go over, it's not as if it's a surprise or anything.
Col : to keep the EXL alive, it has to be funded mate, both at promoter level and at team level. Nick makes a valid point in bringing in media coverage, what sponsor is gonna back an EXL team to the hilt just to watch the NPPL mop up in the magazines, it ain't gonna happen.
The EXL wouldn't have all the top teams and thereby render it relatively unattractive to report on.
I agree 100% with you that XBall is by far the best format to play and watch but XBall is at the moment held hostage by the NXL and its attendant limitations.
The only thing that saves the EXL in any coherent form is this, Dick Clark (or whoever) starts filming in 2005 and some of that dosh begins to flow eastward in 2005, no longer timescale is gonna hack it.
If teams over here were better sponsored or financed, perhaps we could hang around a little longer but we ain't, it's as simple as that mate.
Nick As I told you yesterday, I wouldn't run away with this whole idea that once you play XBall you are turned into superballers. Infamous got 8th place in Toulouse, my Nexus feeder team got fifth, they ain't ever played XBall...you get my point.
I ain't biggin' up what Nexus Eclipse achieved, they did what they did, but let's not get carried away with this whole idea that XBall is the only way forward for players to improve.
They can fast track their way to excellence if they train correctly as Nexus feeder team has shown and this does not necesaarily include XBall.
Gareth Cheers mate, much appreciated !
PS Back is improving and has finally stopped bleeding
For the Americans, they are funded by the paintball industry, for Europe, the answer may lay outside the paintball industrys, more along the lines of what Sergi has done.
In that sense the EXL needs to create it's own identity, that is marketable in Europe, televisable in Europe, and worth sponsoring by companies beyone the paintball industry. Frankly the paintball industry in Europe can't support the teams that are here now, so i believe the answer needs to come from outside the Industry.
That's a bit like saying the answer for all my money problems is to win the lottery, yes it is an answer, and one that is valid but at the same time it is highly unlikely.
You are correct, if the industry is not forthcoming with the money, and the EXL wishes to continue then it has to seek outside help and that ain't gonna happen on the timescale we need it to Col, no way.
It's one thing coming up with an answer mate, completely another to effect it.
After all, just how many Sergeys do you think are out there, in my opinion, he is unique.
If the EXL folds and more importantly the top 3 Euro's up sticks to the US, it ain't just the remaining EXL teams that "may" get fcuked it's the whole of Euroball. This debate shouldn't be limited the EXL, but is at least applicable to the teams that signed up for open X. What, you think teams like Jags, Cyclone, Powertrip, Hardcore and Sharks ain't taking one up the ass if X Ball folds. If anything their financial commitment to X Ball was as much as the EXL teams, and probably more to the individual. If anything is done with X Ball next year, it must be done with inclusion or consultation with the teams who at least signed up for a full season of Open X.
If the likes of Legion, Ton Tons, Joy and Nexus are playing either NXL or NPPL Pro (and who can blame them, by virtue of their skill level they should), the remaining EXL teams and some of the Open teams ain't that different in skill level, hence X Ball "could" still run a league format. The standard won't be anything like what it is in the States. but the format should and must survive in Europe. If the only watchable format of Paintball dies in Europe, the quality of EuroBall will wither and die also (and lets face it ain't far off now). I don't wanna see S****horpe Noname or whatever play fatboy back line noskill paintball. I wanna see in your face gratuitous paintball, I wanna see some on field personalities. I wanna see people shot up good and proper. I do not wanna see Mr Toofattomakeabunker betokened off the little finger, cos believe me if some people have they're way that is what's going to happen. Some Tournament series even design "Back player friendly fields", like "oooh that's exciting to watch every game going to time, nice"
I'm probably too old, slow and sh*t to ever make Pro, but I ain't ready to go to pasture in meaningless domestic ball. If that means we have to haul our asses Stateside to play Div 1 or 2 NPPL then so be it. I don't understand how claiming to be Uk No.1 or whatever is so great, if a US Novice team would scalp you alive.
Of course a fairy godmother, genie in a lamp or lottery win may appear, but with decapitation of the top tier, Euroball may look inward and that would be a very Bad thing.
This is no way a criticism of the teams wishing to make NPPL Pro Bracket. You have to, you have sponsorship commitments and by the desire to be the best should expect to be playing the best in the world. You don't owe the rest of Europe anything (although some people seem to think you do), and maybe just maybe (if the lure of domestic ball can be resisted), you may act as an inspiration to the younger balling generation. Maybe.
Oh and Col's last point is a good one, but we have to give an audience something it wants. One way to do that would be to up the violence level (i.e. more spectacular eliminations), and there are ways of doing that without compromising safety. Paintball is a participation not a spectator sport. In order to appeal with have to make it at least appeal to the uninitiated. Sanitising the game is not the way forward.
If the likes of Legion, Ton Tons, Joy and Nexus are playing either NXL or NPPL Pro (and who can blame them, by virtue of their skill level they should), the remaining EXL teams and some of the Open teams ain't that different in skill level, hence X Ball "could" still run a league format. The standard won't be anything like what it is in the States. but the format should and must survive in Europe. If the only watchable format of Paintball dies in Europe, the quality of EuroBall will wither and die also (and lets face it ain't far off now). I don't wanna see S****horpe Noname or whatever play fatboy back line noskill paintball. I wanna see in your face gratuitous paintball, I wanna see some on field personalities. I wanna see people shot up good and proper. I do not wanna see Mr Toofattomakeabunker betokened off the little finger, cos believe me if some people have they're way that is what's going to happen. Some Tournament series even design "Back player friendly fields", like "oooh that's exciting to watch every game going to time, nice"
I'm probably too old, slow and sh*t to ever make Pro, but I ain't ready to go to pasture in meaningless domestic ball. If that means we have to haul our asses Stateside to play Div 1 or 2 NPPL then so be it. I don't understand how claiming to be Uk No.1 or whatever is so great, if a US Novice team would scalp you alive.
Of course a fairy godmother, genie in a lamp or lottery win may appear, but with decapitation of the top tier, Euroball may look inward and that would be a very Bad thing.
This is no way a criticism of the teams wishing to make NPPL Pro Bracket. You have to, you have sponsorship commitments and by the desire to be the best should expect to be playing the best in the world. You don't owe the rest of Europe anything (although some people seem to think you do), and maybe just maybe (if the lure of domestic ball can be resisted), you may act as an inspiration to the younger balling generation. Maybe.
Oh and Col's last point is a good one, but we have to give an audience something it wants. One way to do that would be to up the violence level (i.e. more spectacular eliminations), and there are ways of doing that without compromising safety. Paintball is a participation not a spectator sport. In order to appeal with have to make it at least appeal to the uninitiated. Sanitising the game is not the way forward.
Glen
I'll take some of what your having - that is an awesome post mate
I'm inspired!!!
I think that you have summed up the delicate balance between those that must do their own thing and those that have no choice and may (or may not) lose out if the top tier up-sticks and goes stateside.
There are still some high quality teams around in Europe and whilst some erosion of standards will occur its up to everyone to do something about that and get the next generation up and running!!
Thats my plan - I'm too old and slow now but I want to bring some people through. Bowen was my first (and I'm eternally sorry - you learn from your mistakes). Euroball will be just fine in the long run.
Mark
I'll take some of what your having - that is an awesome post mate
I'm inspired!!!
I think that you have summed up the delicate balance between those that must do their own thing and those that have no choice and may (or may not) lose out if the top tier up-sticks and goes stateside.
There are still some high quality teams around in Europe and whilst some erosion of standards will occur its up to everyone to do something about that and get the next generation up and running!!
Thats my plan - I'm too old and slow now but I want to bring some people through. Bowen was my first (and I'm eternally sorry - you learn from your mistakes). Euroball will be just fine in the long run.
Mark
Ok, so i remember a conversation between Paul Aulders and someone else at Campaign Cup next year, and Paul was saying something to the effect that he's spent too much money on his franchise to give it to some 'poor little paintball company', and that he was biding his time until someone big (coca-cola or Pepsi big) wanted a piece of the action, and he'd be there to sell it to them. His vision was to build something that was worth something, so when the pay off came it'd be worth it. For Paul, his goal wasn't just to be the best, it was to be worth something to someone with money!
And the Payoff is that although Paul went with Crossman, he went with a big company that has more resource than just it's paintball division... and plans to do something within the paintball industry
I guess this is what i'm getting at with the EXL; instead of ditching it in favor of playing in the NPPL why not make the EXL into something that means something in Europe? Most people think that if you're not top dog in America, then you're nothing, but there's more to the World that the USA, and Europe is a much bigger market.
The trend is for American companies to become massive within the american market, to the point that in order to grow the company they have to look to foregin Markets. A lot of big companies are looking to Europe, potentially the market is much bigger here, there's a lot more people for a start! I can think of one company's European divisions who's goals for the next 5 years is to surpass the American divisions in sales. In short Europe can be bigger than the USA, the potential is there.
So to get back on track, what i'm saying is who gives a toss what the Yanks are doing? Let them do their thing, and let's do our own thing here! What works with the NXL and NPPL, what works for American team won't nescessarly work in Europe. The EXL has to be something else in order to be successful and sustain the teams that play in it.
Europe used to be the bench mark for Paintball tournaments, now the NPPL has taken a step forward and possibly taken the crown from the Millennium Series, and it's time to adapt. What used to work for tournaments dosn't work across the board anymore. It's time to take what we have do something with it.
If the American Dream is so important, then what's the point of living in Europe, paying a fortune to fly half way around the world, to compete with the Americans? Why not just move there and get a life there? (easier said than done i know). If you're going to go for it, why not go all the way?
Or take control of the EXL and make it into something that's profitable, that's sellable, because at least you'll be in control of it. If you could turn the EXL into something the European People are into, that European Business support you'd have the resources to do a Sergi, hire coaches, train every day, and pay your players. As it stands i see the teams jumping ship for the NPPL being short sighted, in the sense that it'll keep their sponsors happy for the next year or two, but it gives them no long term growth in their revinue. How are you going to get a European Sponsor to support your team if you don't even play in Europe? And do you really think an American Sponsor is going to support a foregin team (to the level that Sergi supports his team?) when they could sponsor a less expensive domestic team?
All this is based on one assumption: in order to catch up with the Americans Euro teams will have to train more than the americans. Coaches, Trainers, an entire lifestyle as an athlete. I believe the only hope Euroballers have of being the best in the world is to follow Sergi's example as closely as possible.
Hey at the end of the day, you guys are the teams, and it's your money, and your future. I just hope you havn't missed something.
And the Payoff is that although Paul went with Crossman, he went with a big company that has more resource than just it's paintball division... and plans to do something within the paintball industry
I guess this is what i'm getting at with the EXL; instead of ditching it in favor of playing in the NPPL why not make the EXL into something that means something in Europe? Most people think that if you're not top dog in America, then you're nothing, but there's more to the World that the USA, and Europe is a much bigger market.
The trend is for American companies to become massive within the american market, to the point that in order to grow the company they have to look to foregin Markets. A lot of big companies are looking to Europe, potentially the market is much bigger here, there's a lot more people for a start! I can think of one company's European divisions who's goals for the next 5 years is to surpass the American divisions in sales. In short Europe can be bigger than the USA, the potential is there.
So to get back on track, what i'm saying is who gives a toss what the Yanks are doing? Let them do their thing, and let's do our own thing here! What works with the NXL and NPPL, what works for American team won't nescessarly work in Europe. The EXL has to be something else in order to be successful and sustain the teams that play in it.
Europe used to be the bench mark for Paintball tournaments, now the NPPL has taken a step forward and possibly taken the crown from the Millennium Series, and it's time to adapt. What used to work for tournaments dosn't work across the board anymore. It's time to take what we have do something with it.
If the American Dream is so important, then what's the point of living in Europe, paying a fortune to fly half way around the world, to compete with the Americans? Why not just move there and get a life there? (easier said than done i know). If you're going to go for it, why not go all the way?
Or take control of the EXL and make it into something that's profitable, that's sellable, because at least you'll be in control of it. If you could turn the EXL into something the European People are into, that European Business support you'd have the resources to do a Sergi, hire coaches, train every day, and pay your players. As it stands i see the teams jumping ship for the NPPL being short sighted, in the sense that it'll keep their sponsors happy for the next year or two, but it gives them no long term growth in their revinue. How are you going to get a European Sponsor to support your team if you don't even play in Europe? And do you really think an American Sponsor is going to support a foregin team (to the level that Sergi supports his team?) when they could sponsor a less expensive domestic team?
All this is based on one assumption: in order to catch up with the Americans Euro teams will have to train more than the americans. Coaches, Trainers, an entire lifestyle as an athlete. I believe the only hope Euroballers have of being the best in the world is to follow Sergi's example as closely as possible.
Hey at the end of the day, you guys are the teams, and it's your money, and your future. I just hope you havn't missed something.
I do not believe Euro ball will die, it may falter briefly if the top end teams play stateside only.
There will be other teams that can and will step up to take their place. Some of these teams will then redirect funds to play stateside to help them stay ahead, and compete with the best.
There are some very hungry teams on the Millenium circuit this season and after half a season of playing Xball we sure as **** are not lying down and returning to domestic fat boy at the back Goober ball.
The poor showing at some of the millenniums this year is to do with all the extra partner events watering down the team numbers, not because of EXL openX, Nppl etc.
If the EXL fails and open X goes with it we will move on to what ever format is offered and we will be doing it with Bayonets fixed!
Chuck
There will be other teams that can and will step up to take their place. Some of these teams will then redirect funds to play stateside to help them stay ahead, and compete with the best.
There are some very hungry teams on the Millenium circuit this season and after half a season of playing Xball we sure as **** are not lying down and returning to domestic fat boy at the back Goober ball.
The poor showing at some of the millenniums this year is to do with all the extra partner events watering down the team numbers, not because of EXL openX, Nppl etc.
If the EXL fails and open X goes with it we will move on to what ever format is offered and we will be doing it with Bayonets fixed!
Chuck
>>>If you could turn the EXL into something the European People are into,<<<
Your entire post turns on this sentence Col - and that little 'If'.
Only thang is, that 'little' IF is tha size of Mt. Everest - and you ain't given out a 'How' to suggest how people are s'posed to scale it...
Your entire post turns on this sentence Col - and that little 'If'.
Only thang is, that 'little' IF is tha size of Mt. Everest - and you ain't given out a 'How' to suggest how people are s'posed to scale it...