Wassup with Robbie the Robot at HB

[saMsaM]

???

Taken from pbnation

http://www.pbnation.com/newreply.php?s=&action=newreply&postid=4628268

Originally posted by TeamXodus
At Huntington Beach many Alias's were bouncing not do to Trigger or board bounce but mechanical bounce. So bob made a new setting which he uploaded into all the Alias's at the event which is meant to stop Mechanical bounce. The Gun counters the Mechanical bounce by being less sensitive to kick is my guess. I dont know how it stops it but all the guns had absolutely no bounce after that. The setting is uploaded into the Menu and you select through it just like regular bounce but it is called MBNCE and you control your mechanical bounce.

Is this false information?

 

[TJ Lambini]

Originally posted by manike


Just like with people playing on etc. you can make rules against it and check for it and implement penalties but you aren't ever going to stop it.

What about tha plan favored by moi and our friendly neighbourhood spider-cow?

Bottom line, there are only two options: standardized and locked tourny boards or cap rate of paint delivery--cut off hopper's ability to feed.

Discuss.

 

[Collier]

Originally posted by manike

I do think the WAS board with it's ease of duping the judges and bypassing the eyes gave rise to rumours of many illegal boards. It was way to easy to cheat by dissabling the eyes, but it's also easier to catch. Where WAS boards have been installed with special swicthes to do this is another issue altogether.

Simon,

I don't understand how bypassing the eyes on the WAS effects de-bounce? As I understood it if you set the debounce at say 5 then thats where it's set I don't understand how turning off the eyes would be advantagous, pm me if you don't want to go in to detail here.

Paul

 

[manike]

Sam, I'm not sure, I tried ringing the programmer but couldn't get hold of him. I know we have higher debounce settings available on the new code (up to 50!) due to the smaller and lighter guns being more receptive to bounce due to the recoil, but I don't know about any extra setting and don't see immediately how/why it would work any differently.

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
standardized and locked tourny boards

Nice idea, but who's going to write and implement it? such that it works for all guns (which have different eye systems and require different settings?)

Oh and it would take a few minutes before dodgy ones were around. That and the fact it could be 'daughtered' with a dodgy chip makes it an easy get around.

Also how does it know the inputs it's getting are legitimate?...

Sorry but I don't see it being a complete answer.

It would just take a little more work by the cheats to get around it.

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
cap rate of paint delivery--cut off hopper's ability to feed.

How would you do this? Did you see my post to Wadidiz when he said about this?

It's just not effectively possible. I'd love to see someone write a rule that tried to do this, because in effect everygun/loader would fail it.

And if you have a loader that feeds at just one feed rate you will get different rates of fire out of different guns, so how would you check for it to be a standard?

Is it fair that you have standard loader but with one guy's gun he has a 50% rof advantage? (and no I'm not just making up numbers).

You can NEVER limit rof by the loader system, the only way you could do it (if you wanted to) was by the gun, at least if you want to be fair that is.

Oh, and some loaders already ramp their feed rate (it's perfectly legal for a loader to do this) so what makes you think the software controlling the loaders wouldn't suddenly start being cheated with?

 

[manike]

Originally posted by Paul Collier
Simon,

I don't understand how bypassing the eyes on the WAS effects de-bounce? As I understood it if you set the debounce at say 5 then thats where it's set I don't understand how turning off the eyes would be advantagous, pm me if you don't want to go in to detail here.

Paul

I have no problem posting it, the more people that know the more cheats that will get caught. (although I guess maybe more people will try it also?)

Set your debounce very low (usually 1) so that you get lots of bounce. When the eyes are turned off by bypassing them (with the timmy you did this by holding the bolt forwards and firing three shots) your gun bounces less (you may still get some bounce with some guns, with others you don't). Turn your gun off and on (or push the front button) and it resets the eyes making bounce city again.

I've seen angels and impulses with a WAS board where a three position switch was used to effectively force the gun into bypass mode. err it's so they could dry fire their guns... honest!

 

[Collier]

Originally posted by manike
I have no problem posting it, the more people that know the more cheats that will get caught. (although I guess maybe more people will try it also?)

Set your debounce very low (usually 1) so that you get lots of bounce. When the eyes are turned off by bypassing them (with the timmy you did this by holding the bolt forwards and firing three shots) your gun bounces less (you may still get some bounce with some guns, with others you don't). Turn your gun off and on (or push the front button) and it resets the eyes making bounce city again.

I've seen angels and impulses with a WAS board where a three position switch was used to effectively force the gun into bypass mode. err it's so they could dry fire their guns... honest!

Ahaaa, odd though. I wonder why it bounces less with the eyes off. I'd of thought it would bounce more. I know when messing with my Vik's settings if I set it to debounce 1 it'd bounce like mad (1 trigger pull 2-3 shots) put a hopper on and enable eyes and I'd only get the occasional dbl shot.

Paul

 

[manike]

I believe because when the eyes are in bypass the ROF is capped and therefore it ignores many of the 'extra shots' that you would have got otherwise...

Same way it works with the E-mag rof setting.

 

[Baca Loco]

Originally posted by manike
1--Sam, I'm not sure, I tried ringing the programmer but couldn't get hold of him. I know we have higher debounce settings available on the new code (up to 50!) due to the smaller and lighter guns being more receptive to bounce due to the recoil, but I don't know about any extra setting and don't see immediately how/why it would work any differently.

2--Nice idea, but who's going to write and implement it? such that it works for all guns (which have different eye systems and require different settings?)

Oh and it would take a few minutes before dodgy ones were around. That and the fact it could be 'daughtered' with a dodgy chip makes it an easy get around.

3--How would you do this? Did you see my post to Wadidiz when he said about this?

It's just not effectively possible. I'd love to see someone write a rule that tried to do this, because in effect everygun/loader would fail it.

4--And if you have a loader that feeds at just one feed rate you will get different rates of fire out of different guns, so how would you check for it to be a standard?

Is it fair that you have standard loader but with one guy's gun he has a 50% rof advantage? (and no I'm not just making up numbers).

You can NEVER limit rof by the loader system, the only way you could do it (if you wanted to) was by the gun, at least if you want to be fair that is.

5--Oh, and some loaders already ramp their feed rate (it's perfectly legal for a loader to do this) so what makes you think the software controlling the loaders wouldn't suddenly start being cheated with?

1--to Sam, I believe that is correct. Guys at BLAST called me a short while ago and said they were sending out a new Alias for review and that it had the new programming and when tested at hq had exhibited no untoward bounce but if there was an issue to let them know.
2--obviously it would require big changes as well as safeguards against any sort of physical tampering and is, as noted, unlikely to be agreed upon by anyone in the business.
I would like to see something like it implemented in the NXL however as they are operating under the pretense of being Sport and sport requires every effort at a level playing field. In fact I think it will have to happen at some point if the NXL "works" and is in it for the long haul.
3--if no hopper fed more than say, 20 bps, you would indeed have variations from gun to gun but if you could hold that line you would at least have a ceiling. Not ideal but the prospect of some guns being a more effective combination with such hoppers is less of a problem than what exists now--legally. If you want unequivocal fairness how can it be fair for a team equipped with Timmys and Halos to be matched against a team of Tippmanns and Revvies, or whatever?
4--As noted hopper control only offers a potential ceiling.
5--now you're really depressing me, Simon.

 

[Collier]

Originally posted by manike
I believe because when the eyes are in bypass the ROF is capped and therefore it ignores many of the 'extra shots' that you would have got otherwise...

Same way it works with the E-mag rof setting.

Yeah that makes sense.

Paul

 

[noop]

Silly Baca, the Tippmanns use Halos too.