UK National League Champions 2005

[Robbo]

Originally posted by Andy
Thanks pete im honoured. didnt think we were all reserve team members

Sorry don't know you but don't take it to heart as I was told by somebody else who went there and was not meant as a diss, as you maybe aware, I don't go to these events and so must rely on other people for info, are you saying you put in your first squad every time you played because when I spoke to Pete one time he said he wasn't going to bother ?

 

[Dark Warrior]

Tournament Paintball is all about everybody getting the best for themselves first. The thing is this "sport" has not developed to a level where it can rise above all this bull****.

95% if not more of so called Tournie players have no commitment to developing the sport. They are and always will be just casual tournement players, no different to the casual woodsball players. We are all mostly rec ball players whether it be in the woods or on SupAir, because we play paintball as a recreational sport. The dedicated Tourney players are few and far between.

Tourney Organisers have a business to run first and are looking at promoting themselves not the game.

Magazines preach unity but if you read between the lines and listen to them talk "off the record", it's a different story. Again Magazines are just another business venture

Manufacturers including the UK ones only support the UK scene
as a token gesture, because the UK scene has little nothing really to offer them in reality. Just in case someone cares, they can say that they do support some team or other.

Governing body - only when the people who can change things get their heads out of thier respective ar$e$, (or the proverbial sand), and get together and thrash it out.

Independant Refs - only when someone can convince people to ref and not play, but this will involve real money not the token payments all tournies provide and training to certain staged standards

And yes I'm bitter

Flame on

 

[H]

Pretty much a resounding here here for eric above.

Most UK tourney players are just jumped up recballers with too much money to spend on the next shiny toy. The lack of a decent walk on environment means that a lot of players who want to play regularly for enjoyment must go straight into a competive envrionment.

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by Dark Warrior

Magazines preach unity but if you read between the lines and listen to them talk "off the record", it's a different story.

I pretty much agree with all you say but would you please expand on above for me.
Cheers

 

[duffistuta]

Originally posted by Dark Warrior


Tourney Organisers have a business to run first and are looking at promoting themselves not the game.

Magazines preach unity but if you read between the lines and listen to them talk "off the record", it's a different story. Again Magazines are just another business venture

This is not as cut and dried as that.

Paintball should want 'proper' business people in running tournaments, magazines etc. Christ, the last thing we need is players or altruists, cos players get old/bored/decide to take up something else, and altruists, well, call me a cycnic but I ain't ever met that many. Whereas people who are trying to build a proper business tend to look long term, and if you want to make a success at running a tournament, or a magazine, or selling a gun for that matter, it is in your best interests for the sport to grow and prosper.

Christ, we spend a fortune on promoting the magazine at newsstand in the States - an absolute fortune. We don't do this through any altruistic motive, we do it because we want to be the first magazine that kids browsing the newsstands stumble across, cos we happen to think we do a pretty good job of portraying Paintball as an exciting, and genuine, sport.

We also have faith that once the kid gets into Paintball and gets exposed to other products, he'll still want to read PGi because we believe in our product. We don't want him to just read the mag for an issue or 2, we want to hook him for the length of his Paintball career.

The problem is not good business people and practice, it is that some people are in it to make a fast buck and will take the money and run.

As for mags 'preaching unity', in some cases we do, in some we don't - depends on what situation you're talking about.

 

[Ben Frain]

Mr Robinson, would you perhaps concede that to all intents and purposes there are two 'types' of top teams in the UK, national ones and international?

I appreciate that some teams currently do both (e.g. Tigers) but that does not negate the fact that teams such as your own (Nexus) are viewed by many (well, ok, maybe it's just me) as international and not a domestic team for the simple reason that you don't play the domestic series'?

Secondly, I don't know why anyone would care whether the PA (or any series for that matter) pays to get on TV? For me I think that is even MORE impressive. How many other organisers dip into their profits (if there even are any) to show their series on TV? .....erm....none. Surely all publicity is good publicity?

Thirdly, Bagpuss, WHAT ON EARTH are you talking about? Nearly everything you ask for is what the PA is already doing? It's virtually inch for inch the FA model? Which teams can't they accomodate? As far as I am aware all the teams that have wanted a place have been able to get one. Or am I missing something?

Ultimately, it is just a UK league, but many people have no desire, will, inclination or means to play abroad and for them, right now, there is no better domestic series to play. The PA does have the highest amount of top players from the UK month in month out. I'd even go out on a limb and say I would put money on the manc union having the skill to beat ANY uk team (Nexus included) in a best of 3. (that one was just for you Mr Robinson, watch you don't crush that mouse ) Having teams like that to watch each month surely can't be a bad thing for average players like myself? Got to be better than watching Dynasty Vs XSV on a stamp size PBN camera surely?

For those who aren't fond of the PA - would you not at least concede that the top 4-5 teams in the PA are a higher consistent standard than the top 4-5 teams in any other domestic series?

I can understand that some of the rhetoric might do your tits in but please, at least acknowledge the positives for the UK players. Without the PA there would just be even more disparate and fractured leagues. It is designed to be a national league, whether teams decide to include themselves in it or not is their choice.

Reading through this I think the essence of the Hatts/Robinson love affair is that Hatts vision is more insular and UK based (without much worry to Europe, USA etc) whilst Robbo's vision is UK place within the bigger picture of Europe/US.

I think both have their value's depending on where you want to play but arguing the various merits is a bit like arguing that apples are better than oranges.

 

[Oli HPG]

Originally posted by Ben Frain

Thirdly, Bagpuss, WHAT ON EARTH are you talking about? Nearly everything you ask for is what the PA is already doing? It's virtually inch for inch the FA model? Which teams can't they accomodate? As far as I am aware all the teams that have wanted a place have been able to get one. Or am I missing something?

You surely are. Maybe you need to see the bigger picture past your small venue. Or are you telling me that those few teams in the pa represent the UK-Paintball Secene...I seriously do not think so.

You are nothing more or less then another small series. If you want to call it NATIONAL...what stops the NSPL to be the National. You have teams from all over the country playing there, too!

Only difference is, Syd actually tries to expand his series and get a NATIONAL set up.

 

[garycarrot]

Surely if its a "national" leauge, then players should be able to form a team and play in it. But they can not cause they have a team limit. Which so far has not increased...why??

I know its a simple idea, but if WE want a "national" leauge, then should'nt we have ONE series, that would bring US ALL together, and advance the U.K. paintball.

Then and only then could a team be the national champions.

I honestly do not give a rats arse about the politics. All the U.K. series organisers should get together and form a "national" series, and until this happens we will always be a fragmented group of rec ballers.

Peace.

 

[Ben Frain]

Originally posted by garycarrot
Surely if its a "national" leauge, then players should be able to form a team and play in it. But they can not cause they have a team limit. Which so far has not increased...why??

Small point, yet valid...Gary, it's been going for two seasons and the team limit increased this season.

The reason that there is a limit though (currently 11 a div) is so divisions are fixed and therefore you get to play teams of your own ability each round - I can't see how that is a bad thing unless you only want to play one off's in which case it evidently isn't worth entering a fixed structure league like the PA. It would make far more sense to play open domestic events.

Bagpuss, can you please explain. There are about 38 (or something) teams in the PA at present, they are from England, Scotland and Wales. How does that not represent UK paintball? I am not saying any other series does not, I am simply saying how can you say that the PA doesn't??

 

[Liz]

Originally posted by garycarrot
I honestly do not give a rats arse about the politics. All the U.K. series organisers should get together and form a "national" series, and until this happens we will always be a fragmented group of rec ballers.
Peace.

I was going to keep completely out of this debate, as whatever comments I make or whichever comments made by someone else I support/contradict, I will be upsetting SOMEONE I'm friends with somewhere in paintball

However, there has been at least 2 attempts to get all the series organisers together and singing from the same hymn sheet that I know of in recent years (and I'm sure there have been many others) and they've broken down for various reasons mostly to do with the slightly different formats played by the series e.g. 5 vs 7 man was a big issue, a different number of rounds for different series, slight differences in the rules (e.g. Sosta's vs 1-4-1) and so on.
Until all the series are willing to give up some of their sacred cows and some of the currently total control they have over their own tournaments they won't be able to form a proper "National" series.
And until the players (or at least the teams) are able to commit to playing X times a year on defined dates in a national series then any such series results won't have true validity e.g team A runs away with the 4 legs they can be bothered to turn up to, but doesn't win the series because they didn't play the other 4.