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UK National League Champions 2005

JoseDominguez

New cut and carved spine!
Oct 25, 2002
3,185
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Hatt posting bollocks.

Hatt posting bollocks.
Fine, stop him if he is. But that's what advertising is all about.
Everything is 'the best marker', 'the best series', 'the best paint'.......... weird, everyone else gets to spout whatever crap they like. I'm doubt anyone will be banning advertisers from making outlandish claims any time soon.
Anyway, I hear he's found a cure for cancer, I'll not be taking it though, 'cos I hate him :)
 

Ben Frain

twit twoo
Sep 7, 2002
1,823
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In a tree
Originally posted by Robbo
Ben, your post would make quite a bit of sense if it weren’t for the Pro league but I have to say I agree the distinction you bring to the table of ‘national’ and ‘international’ isn’t one I had thought much about, but it has some merit.
Now Ben, I agree this creates a certain grey area but it’s a grey area that is so readily exploited by hatts and all his bull. He knows full well the PA League doesn’t produce the best team in the country, it merely produces a winner and the context of that win is what defines anything.

Everybody knows who the top three teams are and just because we play on the international circuit shouldn’t allow people like hatts to undervalue and disrespect teams like ours for his own ends, which believe me, he is doing.

I generally stay out of threads where he contributes because Duffy pulls rank on me and basically asks me to bite my lip and I will always respect what Duff asks of me but this time Ben, he tipped me over and I checked with Duff and asked him to read hatt’s post and he agreed with me that it was insulting and misleading.

Now, I know I can be a complete ******* sometimes, but I do not deviate from writing what I genuinely believe to be right and it’s the way I go about things rather than the substance of what I am saying that is a problem.

As for your take on the Sky TV deal, it’s the attendant misrepresentation that gets me with all his exploits, he implies that his PA league drew Sky to it as if by some entrepreneurial genius when in fact, anybody can get whatever they like (within reason) on Sky if they come across with a few grand.

As for the Manc union beating any of the top 3 teams in a best out of three: I will treat that little nugget with the disdain it certainly deserves and this is no way being disrespectful to Manc Union.

And FFS Ben, are you seriously suggesting the top 4 or 5 teams in the PA are better than the top 4 or 5 in the Pro league ??????
Are you really suggesting as much???

And how the hell you can say that with the advent of the PA league it has made things less disparate, bejeezus Ben, what on earth is your rationale for that?
That statement just makes no sense as the PA adds to the fracturing not lessens it.

And as for trying to classify the difference between me and hatts as one of differing emphases, well the emphasis isn’t confined to national / international considerations as you suggest, the difference is, I don’t bull****, he does.

I don’t suffer fools gladly and he is one if he thinks the PA is gonna produce the best team.
Nah, read my posts Ben, forget who it is who is writing them and read the content, there is no exaggeration, no lies, no bull****, just what is.

Ben you try to diffuse the situation by introducing the notion of parity and difference of opinion with your apples and oranges comment but in reality, the guy’s a fruitcake who imagines he is the St George of Paintball.
Ben you go play whatever you like and you believe whatever you like but when somebody like hatts turns round and tells me I don’t live in the real paintball world, then you have to take stock of the situation and take a valued guess as to who’s talking sense.
I think I know a tad more about what’s going on in the real world of paintball than hatts, but hey, I’m sure you’ll make your own decision.
Right, I think the international/domestic UK team is pretty important in this context as I think (obvioulsy I can't say for sure as it is just the sense I get when talking to others) that nobody really thinks of Nexus as a UK team in the domestic sense whilst at the same time I can understand how it would aggravate to see something labelled as best team in the UK when obviously it's a label that could be applied to your team. The problem either way is obvioulsy the context it is put within (as you have already stated). No argument from me there.

I also take your point about Sky. I think that's a fair comment in relation to the PA.

Pro league and top 5 of the PA - I wasn't including the Pro league in the equation as it isn't a league that anyone can enter. It's a freemasons for paintballers that is only open to the invited. Not saying that isn't the best way to do it but I think it is wrong to lump that up with other domestics (NSWPL, MM, S2K, D7, PA etc) as you can't just play it, even if your team decides it wants to.

That said, the top 5 in the Pro tour, with the exception of yourselves and Shockwave are pretty much the same as the top 5 PA teams aren't they? There are certainly some of the same teams playing both I am certain. However, I must admit I am rather insular thinking in this respect and I don't know who the top 5 in pro tour are at this point anyway.

My rationale for saying the PA has made things less disparate is that it has set up the structure (fixed rosters, published rulebook, fixed divisions, capped team limits, player signing and transfer procedures etc etc) where any team in the UK, should they desire, can play at a central (not so central location this year but bare with me) venue, with independant refs in a fixed league format. No other domestic series in the UK offers that - that is why, in my opinion it has made it less disparate. Whether all the teams that could play DO play (or even want to) is a different matter, the possibility and potential is there due to the structure put it place that no other series has offered.
 
Originally posted by Ben Frain
Whether all the teams that could play DO play (or even want to) is a different matter, the possibility and potential is there due to the structure put it place that no other series has offered.
Hmmm, so if a team wants to play they do not get parked on a waiting list until a slot comes available. So ALL teams that WANT to play the PA can play, please don't make me laugh!
 

Robbo

Owner of this website
Jul 5, 2001
13,116
2,157
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London
www.p8ntballer.com
Jose, hatts needs to find a cure for spouting abject bollocks not cancer mate and he also needs to seek help in endeavoring to combat a condition whereby he suffers from what seems like uncontrollable bouts of self-inflation resulting in infecting other people with the idea he knows what he's talking about and he is our only savior.


Ben I am glad you seem not to suffer from hatt's other condition of never being able to listen to anybody but his own counsel, you at least appear to be willing...
As for the pro league being invitational and this somehow precluding it in your 'national' list; in reality, this is an academic point because within that pro league, I think we have the top 8 or so teams with maybe a little variance.
It certainly has a more legitimate claim to showcase our best than the PA which has always been my point.

Within the context you mention regarding the fracturing of UK paintball, you are right but it's quite a narrow bandwidth of consideration when the fracturing that was originally bought up was in the context of UK paintball and the teams which of course with another option (PA) becoming available must by definition make it more disparate, but this is such a minor point and of no real importance.

Jose, above actually touches on something important in that should we ignore the product just because we don't like or think its vendor is a dick?
It depends, some advertisers do stretch credibility when they say 'this is best ' and so on and a certain amount of poetic license is always apparent but if you wanna come on these boards and tell everybody you got the quickest marker out there and somebody comes back with, 'Nah you ain’t I bench-tested it the other day and your marker ain't nowhere near what you are saying', you better have the necessary defence if you wanna come back on that.

Nobody asked hatts to put that stuff up on these forums, he does it all the time and this is a paintball forum where people will come back at ya if you make ridiculous assertions.

Because you can bet your bottom dollar, if I ever went round saying I was the best baller who ever lived, there would be many voices telling me I wasn't and giving me good reasons why not.

Now I can either choose to defend my position by talking even more bollocks or I can hold my hands up and accept the truth; I ain’t.

I maybe a lot of things but I tell ya one thing, I do know what I am talking about when it comes to ‘real’ paintball world issues contrary to another one of hatts's suggestions and it will be people like Ged, Niall, Owen, Laurent, and Sergey who hold the real reins of power and direction of Euroball, and they are infinitely more qualified and respected than hatts.

As I said earlier, our fate (and so it should be) is tied into the macro-directions of Euro and world Paintball by virtue of a trickle down process.
The time for a unilateral trickle up influence has long since passed I’m afraid and even if it was still possible, hatts would not be the person who could make it happen, he just has no idea when it comes to playing the politics of paintball.

I must admit tho, my reaction to him and his BS is mediated by a dislike and disrepect for the man as he has been indulging himself at PGI's expense in his dealings with some people outside of the industry which we got to hear about.
With that in mind, he then comes on PGi's forum spouting what he does, I ain't gonna let it go under those circumstances coz at the very least, it's a bit of a cheek don't ya think ?