UK National League Champions 2005

[HERMITT]

I believe strongly that the reason we dont have a powerful functioning body in this country is the infighting and politicing that takes place. I also think that too many people have an agenda and that these are standing in the way of getting to a level where we can really be taken seriously. Without officially sanctioned events the argument you have with hatts about the valdidity of the PA and other similar domestic tournaments will continue. It also stands in the way of a europe wide series that will allow the progression of teams to be properly measured while ensuring the events that we as paying customers expect.

 

[duffistuta]

Originally posted by HERMITT
Without officially sanctioned events the argument you have with hatts about the valdidity of the PA and other similar domestic tournaments will continue. It also stands in the way of a europe wide series that will allow the progression of teams to be properly measured while ensuring the events that we as paying customers expect.

1. I disagree. Teams validate leagues. No-one questions the NPPL and the PSP's validity. However, that situation will reverse itself sooner rather than later.

2. The Millennium was and could be again.

I don't disagree with your basic premise though, but one of the major problems is that the team owner, the field owner and the gun sponsor and very often one and the same person, and what is in the guy's interests with one hat on is not in his interests when he puts on one of the others.

And didn't the EPA try to set up a players assoc? And wasn't it met with apathy? I guess there wasn't enough sponsorship to allow teams to get involved...

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by HERMITT
I believe strongly that the reason we dont have a powerful functioning body in this country is the infighting and politicing that takes place. I also think that too many people have an agenda and that these are standing in the way of getting to a level where we can really be taken seriously. Without officially sanctioned events the argument you have with hatts about the valdidity of the PA and other similar domestic tournaments will continue. It also stands in the way of a europe wide series that will allow the progression of teams to be properly measured while ensuring the events that we as paying customers expect.

My argument with hatts has nothing to do with not having a unified body and everything to do with his outrageous claims and attitude.
There are many sports that have fragmented events and these sports are not harmed in any way by it but the Millennium in Europe, whether we like it or not, represents the best there is in terms of infrastructure and quality of attendance.
The Millenium already gives us what you say we require because the sport hasn't yet devloped in this country (or in fact any European country) whereby the serious teams can go strut their stuff against other high class, multiple compettion.
This just isn't possible on a national basis.
Our progressoin as teams isn't hampered by any stupid ass argument here, it is more hampered by people's attitude to training and commitment.

 

[duffistuta]

Originally posted by Robbo

Our progressoin as teams isn't hampered by any stupid ass argument here, it is more hampered by people's attitude to training and commitment.

Exactly. Paintball, like genius, is 99% perspiration, 1& inspiration, and you have only to look at the average player at any event to see that the don't do nearly enough perspiring...or when they do it's cos they're sweating out lager and chips.

 

[HERMITT]

Ultimately we have to move away from a osition where the layer or the company are entirely in control. It will alow the sport and the key decisions to be made more objectively and with the broader picture in mind. It will also mean that punishments and infringements will not dissappear into the murks of different events.

The EPA dissappeared because paintballers cant see past the next box of paint and the manufacturers/event organisers cant see past te next pound sign. Between them the apathy and agenda will stop us. Ultimately its not about beating the yanks, its about making sure that we have in place a global series of bodies that are able to come together and ensure that the future of our sport is protected.

Events have to be sanctioned, players have to be members and part of the money generated from the various series (national/european/global) should be put back into the governing bodies. Organisers would still take the profit while the bodies would take a signing up fee and bid from each event.

 

[KitsuneAndy]

Well, the money goes one of two places (depending on the site owner)

1. Straight into his pocket

2. Back into the site to put up new fields.

The thing to remember is that although they charge a lot for paint on normal customer days, what else do they charge for?

The "entry" fee probably only covers the wages for the marshals, they then have to clean a few hundred overalls a week along with cleaning guns, masks, hoppers etc and then on top of that there's running a compressor etc etc..

And to top it off, most paintball sites are only open through the week if a special booking is made because they rarely have enough people on weekdays to open. So the site owner has to make as much money as they can.

I think site's could concentrate more on "walk on's" but to do that, they have to guarantee they are going to make money, and the only way they can probably do that is by only allowing paint to be bought on-site. Then people will complain that they can get their own cheaper.. At the end of the day there's no way to make everyone happy

Edit: this was in response to "Too much money in paintball if you ask me, but where does it all go?" but you all posted loads of things while i was writing this

 

[John C]

Originally posted by AndyDane
Well, the money goes one of two places (depending on the site owner)

1. Straight into his pocket

2. Back into the site to put up new fields.

I can think of a third place where 17.5% of it goes.

Then theres insurance, which is very steep due to the amount of risk involved in paintball!



Im suprised most sites stay afloat, I imagine promoting the tournament scene must come second to putting food on the table.

 

[Robbo]

If what we most of us know is true, that paintballs can be bought for under 15 quid a case of 2000 by site owners then somebody's making some money here if the retail is as suggested so I wouldn't shed too many VAT tears over that one.

When Dave YB and Avery from NPS came over here, they couldn't believe the way we did business here in that there seemed no encoragement from site owners to develop their business in line with the already hugely succesful American model.

Some enterprising site owners, like Nick from Skirmish, Bully, Barry Fuggle and Niall are trying to go down that road in nudging punters toward walk-ons but I'm afriad it ain't nowhere near enough.

If the site owners can't be botherd to take off their blinkers then how the hell they gonna see the bigger picture?
They could of course use their brains to work it all out........but hey...

 

[Flash-Bugout]

Originally posted by John C
promoting the tournament scene must come second to putting food on the table.

More like third to putting food on the table, and premium 4* in the porsche...

Something struck me on the way home from work, mulling over this thread.

Whoever wins the British rally series is called the best rally driver in Britain.

Not neccessarily the same thing as the best British rally driver. By a long way.

The top level international series need the national series to exist so they can survive.
I know I'm a couple of years behind with my driver knowledge, but because Colin Macrae & Richard Burns didn't race in the British national rally championships, does that make them a waste of time and effort for those drivers driving at that level?

I don't think so. They compete at the national level to get to the top of that tree, so they can jump onto the bottom branch of the international tree, and then work their way up that one.

We need the lower-level national series to build for the future. Tournament paintball as a sport is positively embyonic, and unless we get proper, organised series, it will stay that way for good.

Shockwave/Nexus/etc might get the hump with the winner of the PA being called the "best team in Britain", but like Robbo has already said, when you're competing on an international stage, the national series means diddly squat.

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by Flash-Bugout
Whoever wins the British rally series is called the best rally driver in Britain.

Not neccessarily the same thing as the best British rally driver. By a long way.

Flash I think you need to either reword the above or take a course in philosophy because what you seem to be saying is ' the best rally driver in Britain doesn't equal the best British rally driver'...well as long no other national is allowed to enter the birtish rally then I'm afraid your statements do not make any sense................leastwise to me.

The problem you are having here is by nominating the winner of the British rally the 'best' but in a definitive sense he / she can only be defined as the winner of the British rally and not as the best British...

The fact that 'national title is added means diddly squat and it is the entries that validate the tournament and not because some idiot just calls it as such.

Everything worth anything in this world has context and has to be judged within that context and in this sense winner does not mean best, which I think is the anomaly you were struggling to explain.