UK National League Champions 2005

[robtattoo]

After re-reading the initial post, I can honestly say I understand how Robbo feels this time. Imagine you'd spent years of your life playing with & training one of the top teams in the UK & then re-read the initial post. I can't imagine how it could be construed as anything other than personal. It's basically undermining everything Pete has worked for with Nexus (Not to mention the Tigers & Shockwave) for the past years. The only way I can see someone being crowned the UK's Top Team, is for that particular team to play & beat EVERY other team in the UK. I believe that this is why the original post by Hatts was so inflamitory.

 

[Collier]

Originally posted by Bagpuss
Dude, that's the problem we have got, people think the are "NOBODY" and what can one person change!

PEOPLE : YOU GUYS ARE THE SCENE! WE ARE THE ONES WHO PAY THE MONEY! WE ARE THE ONES WHO CAN CHANGE EVERYTHING!

Not me, I've quit... for now.

 

[xXx]

You are looking at the little picture, this is by no means good hype for the sport it shows that the sport is divided. Mayor sponsors look at sites for things before investing, silly stunts like this cause problems in the bigger picture

 

[luke kelly]

Gentlemen

Hi all, I don't post often 'cos I'd rather muse these things over a pint..... But...

I had an interesting experience over the end of last year and the beginning of this year. I went traveling to California to spend six months training at SC Village in Corona.

During that time I had the pleasure of training with Dynasty, San Diego Legacy, Wicked, Oakland Assassins, HK Army and WGP Nitro.

I spent most of my time with Dynasty, Wicked and HKA and I learned a lot of things (other than tools of play). And I have gathered a fresh perspective on UK Paintball.

The Yanks have a different attitude to Paintball than a lot of us Brits and I think that's because it's simply easier to gain experience over there than here in the UK. You all know this already I'm sure, but did you know Dynasty drive for 2hrs every Sat/Sun morning and then the same every Sat/Sun afternoon, to scrim against Wicked, Arsenal or whoever they called on the Friday night before. This doesn't happen much over here and I'm not saying that as an insult to UK Paintball, but we simply don't have the resources to experience; cheap, high quality, readily available training. The Yanks do, hence the long journeys. Wayne from Arsenal, and Rudy from Wicked actually FLY across several States just to play at SCV, as the experience is so rewarding.

From reading this thread I sense a lot of frustration and I'm sure most of it is justified, and I estimate that this is because we have it hard here in the UK. I had to go to CA to get the experience I longed for, as I felt so frustrated here in the UK. Again, I'm not beefing on the UK scene at all, I wish to see us all rally our efforts and create a Paintball scene comparable to that in CA. We certainly have the enthusiasm and energy, but it seems to be misdirected frequently by short-sighted agendas.

Now that I'm back home, I'm failing to get even a sliver of the experience I had in the States, but that's not why I'm frustrated. I'm frustrated because the potential is here but we're not tapping into it.

Giovanni is smiling from ear-to-ear (except when he's coaching X-Ball!!) as SCVillage is filled to bursting point every weekend with eager Ballers, who when the day is finished go get pissed and stoned together at the local BBQs. I friggin miss that a lot, the sense of community amongst all those Ballers. (Yes they have their own problems, I'm just speaking generally).

Yet over here we have no SCVillage, we have instead a lot of frustrated Ballers aching for experience. And anyone who did try to emulate SCVillage would be rubbing their hands together as we rolled in, damn I'd be there.

My point is, it's hard over here for us all, and from my perspective things aren't going to improve until we have a communal training ground (or a few of them), and, most importantly, a common priority... to put ourselves on the map.

One last thing, before I came home from CA I spoke to the boys in blue about which British Team they regarded as the best... It was Shockwave. Oh my god, could that be anything to do with a Millennium win...? You bet it was. We've got the talent over here but it's being strangled by something, I can only fill in part of the puzzle to the best of my knowledge, and it's only my humble opinion, but it is an informed one.

Peace, Luke.

 

[Robbo]

Luke, I just got off the phone from Ledzy and we talked briefly about why UK balling seems to suck, especially when contrasted against the Yanks as your post sets out to do and we both (Ledz and I) agreed on some fundamental differences and they seem to be cultural.

Now I have been to the US over 50 times, Ledzy over 30, so we have a fair experience of what makes it 'tick' over there and what makes it 'tock' over here.
In the US, success is generally met with respect and provides aspirational focal points; to flesh this out, Ledz mentioned several occasions where Div 2 and 3 players in the NPPL would come up and express their liking for Nexus and how much they would like one day to play for us.

Now, could you imagine how many guys go up to Dynasty or XSV players saying similar things?
If we get that sort of attention, and it's not even on home turf, those other guys are gonna get inundated with it all.

In the UK, we meet success sometimes, not with respect but with disdain, as a focus of criticism and thus for some people it is a negative consideration but for Americans.....if you are up there, well, then you are up there.
Some of the UK people look on it, if you are up there, then you're a target.

We seem not to view success in such a positive light as the Americans, we would much rather moan and bitch and do something else rather than having these aspirational figures to aim for and consequently get focused on how to get there.
SC Village is hugely successful because it's full of little Oli Langs everywhere.
You could set up a SC Village and I'm afraid it wouldn't have anywhere near the same response as you suggest because we just don't have the required mindset in sufficient number of players.
Look at what Markie C is trying to do in bringing XSV over here for a training school, what a great opportunity for everybody but the response???
Well when Markie C comes on these boards and tell me he's rammed out with numbers trying to get in, I might change my opinion as to the reasons why UK ball is the way it is but until then, I'll default to the experience I have gained (and Ledzy) in playing and living this game for 18 years in the UK.
Nah, a lot of ballers in the UK would rather go to the Cleethorpes five man than learn how to play the game better…..ironic ain’t it because it will be some of those very same ballers who will then bemoan our relative position with the US.

 

[H]

I think your final point Pete could be mainly atributed to the average age of most ballers in the UK. Most of them over here are older and would rather spend a fortune on the shinyest toy then turn up to the 'Cleethorpes five man ' just to have a laugh.

If you fill the sport with bitter, cynical old guys who are too lazy to improve their own skills then it's just going to retard any efforts to push UK ball as a whole any further.

 

[luke kelly]

I can certainly see where you're coming from, and it's good to know my perspective is being shared by some.

Since I have been back home I have had some really positive reactions regarding my experiences in the States, and it seems that there are many people who are eager to learn to play Pro Ball. Saying that, these people were all old friends so there's certainly a bias as with any opinion. However, I was unaware of the XSV tuition planned for the UK and I cannot understand the lack of response...? Perhaps there is an element of fear amongst UK Ballers, or cynicism. I dunno? I can't understand that and I'm sure XSV are even more confused.

As for the disdain thing, I'm very aware of that indeed. Infact I have been reluctant to post any information about my Californian exploits on any forums but the US ones, as I would expect to be met with disdain instead of enthusiasm.

The pendulum has to swing the other way soon.

IT IS GONNA CHANGE, people are smart and like all things there comes a breaking point. I was at mine last year so I got on that plane and had the best 6 months of my life. The will is there in other people I'm sure, but for the time being I think the only rewards available are personal satisfaction, and that's not enough for me now that I'm home.

Where's the love?

 

[Markie C]

Gentlemen

Originally posted by luke kelly
Yet over here we have no SCVillage, we have instead a lot of frustrated Ballers aching for experience. And anyone who did try to emulate SCVillage would be rubbing their hands together as we rolled in, damn I'd be there.

We do the have a sc village here it's the northern quarter (not to the scale i think to the sc)

we are all about supair no recball in sight but doe's my phone ring off the hook............ No....all i get is "£12.50 that's a bit much" or "you have to walk down a hill to get there"

we started of small ie fill off dive tank's and stuff but i invested a lot of money and i do meen a lot to get a compresser and a new supair field and more stuff to the like


it's not the best place in the world but at least i am trying, i hold newbie day's to get people to get out of the wood's and into supair


but all i get is the same old crowd but it is the best old crowd ie the kelly's, manc union, some of shockwave, some of nexus, and just manchester,manc xtreme

So why dont people make the drive to train with the best team's in the u.k I dont know.

As for the xsv thing you are right robbo the number's are not filling up as i would of hoped but they are getting there, all i have had is "it's a bit to much"


Well no it isnt if you take into account i have to pay for there flight's hotel room's there food and there wage's you can see it come's to a lot i have no backing or sponser ship but ledz is helping me out a lot.I will be lucky to break even,but it's not about making money it's about trying to do some thing different trying to change thing's,bringing a world class team over a week before campangie to get the skill's

luke. you are from manchester well why havnt i seen you at the site we can only make it like sc village if the people come and train hard but they dont only the select few



Come on guy's let's prove people wrong let's get the training done let's start to make the change

ps thank's for the mention robbo

 

[Ben Frain]

Is there a fundemental mindset difference between training differences as well though?

For example, there is the insular self contained method of training as pioneered by RL and championed in PGI by Peter Robinson.

On the other hand, from Mr Kelly's experience (very interesting by the way, I hope you post more of your experiece, sounds like a holy journey for paintballers) it would seem that top US teams are all for just bashing heads with the best competition they can find.

I've kept away from the bashing heads style in the past (mainly due to paintbills of scrimmaging all day etc) but the more I consider it I don't see how getting a sound kicking from the Kelly's/Just Manchester/Shockwave etc lot at the Northern Quarter would do anything but improve a team. After all there are only so many times you can get hammered before you start to realise where your weaknesses are, no?

 

[Robbo]

I'm afraid bashing heads doesn't work in the enviroment we find ourselves in and the insular approach is about the only way forward but there's still a problem and it's a recurrent one in that we still have the problem of talent base, commitemnt and knowing what to do in the required insular training environment.

From what I have seen, not enough of us want to know what it takes, not enough of us want to commit enough and not enough of us know what to do.

All the time enterprising people like Markie C take a time out and the trouble to put on things such as getting XSV over here at considerable expense and the clinic not being supported as it should, then we have got no fikkin chance and even less justification for moaning about the present state of affairs.

I'm afraid Luke's experiences Stateside are gonna prove academic here if we look at them as some sort of working blueprint to what we should be doing because of the cultural divide and differing mindsets.

I happen to truly believe (rightly or wrongly) that Nexus have got the best chance of getting into the top 5 than any Brit team with the talent base we have and our attendant resource package.
We don't train anywhere near enough what it will take to get in that top 5 and the only real hope I have is that I can get about another 40% to my sponsor portfolio to enable me to get 5 or 6 of the players on as full time pros and then perhaps we could maybe knock on the door and until that happens..........all of us in the UK are gonna still be playing the wishing game....no matter what fantasy flag Mak waves at us all.