UK Disgrace

[Sid_Clan]

and sid is one intimidating mofo so no one will say no to him ;p (cept most females on the planet)



JOKE DONT HURT ME

No I'm not.....I be a pussycat

Sid

 

[Sid_Clan]

This thread has certainly highlighted some fundamental problems we have in the UK and that was the purpose of this thread, so in that sense, it was a success tho I fear some King Canutes will be wasting their time.

QUOTE]

That's the thing though mate, we need support for this to work, and your one if not the most influencial man in paintball....I guess you have a choice like the rest of us, you either use your contacts and support this, or you sit and do nothing and watch everyone else try and possibly fail the say told you so. Think what you could bring to this table, everything or nothing.

Sid

 

[Sid_Clan]

Don't forget who is viking blood - you crazed scotsman

Yeah I know, that's why I'm bringing black pepper

 

[KitsuneAndy]

Andy,

I wouldn't go with a booklet as this can be expensive, all you need is a flyer, something small. Website addresses, photos, stuff like that. Use the action shots we all love to see. I'll have a look to see if I can maybe get some video footage on this site as well so people can actually see and hear what tournament paintball is like, i know from experience that pictures are nice, but pictures with sound work so much better, doesn't have to be massive, just maybe the same idea as they use on the start of paintball DVD's. I show my customers Breakout footage from tournaments, all guns blazing and the reaction is always the same "FKN 'ELL, listen to that, that sounds amazing" Well let's use the senses.

The last time I checked with the printers that I used to use for music promo stuff I could get 5000 full colour 8 page glossy booklets for under a grand. fliers I can get double sided postcard sized, full colour for £130 per 3000.

The idea of the booklet and website was to get people to read a paragraph about say tourney ball look at some photo's and think "yeah, that looks cool" then to look up the website. The website wouldn't hold a huge amount of info but have some more photo's/video's info pages on each "type" of paintball and links to all the relevant sites/shops. Certainly not a site aimed at giving as much info as possible, just a site to wet the persons appetite and spur them on to look for more. So for example, they'd look at the brief bit on my site think "I'd like to do that" then click the links to your site, this forum etc.

Similarly there'd be links/info for just general walk on games as well as scenario/big games. That way more people that looked at it would be interested in atleast something even if it wasnt sup air.

Okay random question, if i have 15 players in my team spread across 4 sites in central scotland, where does that leave the rest of the UK, surely 75% of site have at least one tournament player/walk on player thats a member of staff?

That is probably very true mate and it is these sites that would be a great initial focal point for any promo material. Coupled with chatting to the staff or seeing any video's there they'd also be able to walk away with a physical piece of promotion. Even if they didnt look into it any further they may hand it to a mate that could be more interested.

 

[Sid_Clan]

But here is the thing, I know I could get at least 6 sites in Scotland on board with this, I could send copies of the flyers to other sites, whether or not they use them is another thing. Also, problem is, with a booklet it becomes more costly, that and customers are more prone to leaving with a flyer than a booklet. But, across the UK, how many sites would come on board? We have to sell this to them in such a way that they themselves look on it as repeat business. As you say and I will conceide, if we give them options then more sites would come on board as they would look on it as repeat customers, let's face it, if you buy your own mask, your going to play aren't you?

All it takes is for a few people to take these home, leave them lying around, people see them, it's market presence, same as advertising and marketing.

Sid

PS The Market presence thing came from my Mrs....I'm just a site owner and know nothing of advertising

 

[KitsuneAndy]

But, across the UK, how many sites would come on board? We have to sell this to them in such a way that they themselves look on it as repeat business. As you say and I will conceide, if we give them options then more sites would come on board as they would look on it as repeat customers, let's face it, if you buy your own mask, your going to play aren't you?

Exactly!

There are probably loads of players that play regular-ish recball at sites but don't necessarily realise about walk on days. A lot of site owners do like walk on's because anything they make on the day is pure profit after paying the marshalls, a walk on player doesn't generate any costs other than when he is there on the day (as opposed to the washing/maintenance that a punter might generate).

If this is one of the options presented to the customer then it may be that this is the first step they take (as a lot of us do/did). The leap from recball to sup air is fairly steep and people are more likely to go from recball to walk on's to sup air but if they do not realise the middle step is there, some people may write it off as too big a leap for them.

 

[Robbo]

This thread has certainly highlighted some fundamental problems we have in the UK and that was the purpose of this thread, so in that sense, it was a success tho I fear some King Canutes will be wasting their time.

QUOTE]

That's the thing though mate, we need support for this to work, and your one if not the most influencial man in paintball....I guess you have a choice like the rest of us, you either use your contacts and support this, or you sit and do nothing and watch everyone else try and possibly fail the say told you so. Think what you could bring to this table, everything or nothing.

Sid

Flattery will get you everywhere Sid and I did touch upon some of the stuff I have been doing behind the scenes in discussing some, if not all of this stuff with the people who have real power and money, they actually did listen to me with all of them showing real interest and understanding, so it remains to be seen whether or not any of their marketing strategies morph accordingly.

I do think however that if their new understanding is to take shape then it has to be a collective venture and this is where it might hit problems.
Marketing tourney ball on a nationwide basis is a serious undertaking and takes serious money and so I don't think one company alone is gonna take this on as the beneficiaries will be everybody.
It makes sense to get together on this one but the industry have a chequered past when it comes to doing anything together to say the least.
So you see Sid, much as some people on here might like to minimise what I do or what PGi does, I have done a lot behind the scenes to try and get us back up there but I can't do it all mate, nor do I want to even try.

 

[tom9]

here goes...

Ok so I've read about half of this discussion...the thread seems to be changing its topics a bit, its more on the situation of british paintball and its conversion from rec to tournament ball? I may be jumping to conclusions for some of this but anyway...

We all know UK paintball started at rec sites? Tournament paintball came much later on…

In Europe, from what I can tell recreational/woodsball is not as popular or well known, the people starting training sites abroad are tournament players, people interested in introducing paintball the sport.

Places like France, Sweden and Germany don’t have the setbacks and bases like we do, there is no necessity to introduce a new version of the 'game' and so they are developing faster and with more success than us?

UK paintball = stag nights/company outings/kids playing army

Ask any British person and they will tell you about dressing up in camo and shooting loads [300] of paintballs!!!! Omg 1!!!!!1!!11eleven and all that gay... to change such a perception is surely a lost cause?

What I’m basically trying to say is… surely our national lack of interest in paintball as a sport is due to our national appreciation of the fun we can have ‘playing’ rec ball? Or maybe I’m saying… whatever we do to try and further paintball as a sport in the UK will NOT work because =

a)not enough people care
b)there is simply not enough money
c)recball is a popular ‘hobby’ for people and profitable business for site owners?

I've watched paintball for the past 3 years and from what I've seen, the schemes, plans and new tournaments I think it is fairly clear that we cannot base the continuation of paintball, the sport, on bringing recball. It’s different and has to been seen as such for paintball to evolve to the level we all want to see?

 

[Sid_Clan]

This is what I'm talking about though Robbo, how can we possibly hope to change things when the industry itself can't get along long enough to let us try!!!

Surely even if the UK Paintball industry would support £x to flyers to have their marketing, logos, websites on them that's not a bad thing, ffs, you know what, this frustrates the **** out of me and yes, no change in my previous wording!!!!!!! I run a bloody team from Scotland, that travels all over the UK and next year Europe, we have NO real sponsors, we PAY for everything ourselves, some of my players are students who can't afford to play, but make sacrifices to do so because they have the passion and me driving them to be the best they can, and yet I'm sitting here trying to justify a project to get UK ball back on track and yet my FKN Country make up about 0.2% of all UK based players!!!!! WHY!!!!!!!!!!!

Rant over....deep breath....passion for the sport of paintball.....I just got a message from one of my team players that simply said British Mentality, they egg you on to do it, once it's done, no one gives a toss. so, what do we do, do we concede that we are destined to be a nation of wannabes, or do we do something about it? You know what, I wish I had a tenth of the facilities you guys have down there, I could make something great!! But instead I'm up here, one team, rippin out my back garden to build a training field for my guys next year to make them exactly that.

I'll go ahead with this, already been speaking with Andy Dane and hopefully meeting up with him at the Masters next weekend for a chat.

Watch this space.

Sid

 

[Liz]

One thing that confuses me about this debate is that a few years ago there was a very healthy walk on scene in the UK, I could go to any one of a number of sites and walk on just about every weekend. So why did this die a death? What changed from then to now, and what changes might there be in the air to make it change back?