UK Disgrace

[Sid_Clan]

One thing that confuses me about this debate is that a few years ago there was a very healthy walk on scene in the UK, I could go to any one of a number of sites and walk on just about every weekend. So why did this die a death? What changed from then to now, and what changes might there be in the air to make it change back?

Bitchin Liz nothing more nothing less....

Paintball as a whole is getting more mainstream in this Country, more companies are using it as an advertising medium, thomson local to name but one. Only yesterday I went through to a studio in Edinburgh to help out with a photoshoot to promote a Dutch internet banking company who were using paintball as an advetising tool, so the Country knows it's there.

We need to build on this and ease tournament paintball on these people who can put it into livingrooms and TV's across the Country(They think it's all over). We are seeing Sup air used in film(that one with whats her face from sex in the city), people need to see this. Take the 80's for example, BMX was the thing yes? Well, BMX Bandits came out, everyone had one, this was the time when Grifters and Choppers were the in bikes to have, why not do it with paintball? PA League was shown on Sky Sports Extra, end of the day we need to make people realise it's out there. I have lost count of how many of my customers say they didn't realise it was a sport, or so big when I talk to them about Tournament Paintball.

Going on what has happened in the past and what is happening now is going to get us nowhere, we need to look to the future.

Sid

 

[Revolt]

well sid, all good in theory, but say we get these 6 or so sites in scotland on board, everyone puts up fliers in there site, big posters, mabey even a tourney marker for punters to try out, advertise this site, tourney vids...

i dont know about anyone else but i played as a punter, i would have never knew tourney even existed had the marshall not played for the clan ;>

if the sites can work together, to increase the number of players that go from punterdome to tourney, then mabey scotland can have a "scene" of its own

however i reckon there has to be something in place first

saying to all these potential guys "hey all we need is for 50 of you to go buy your own kit, form teams, and then we can have a tourney"

on the other hand no point in hosting a tourney if you cant guarentee the teams

meh, well that lead me back to the start

 

[topchef]

tis true...

I arranged a works day out nearly 18 months agob to go 'ballin' because it was the cheapest way for me to try paintball out ( had previously been wanting to 4 ages). basically I arranged a party of thirty to go as 'punters' for the day and I went for free
ANYWAY.....to cut a long story short
It was only when I was there playing as 'rentals' for the day that i got talking to a few marshalls and saw a couple of posters floating around of a paintball TEAM called Joy division (hhmmmm wonder what site that was....cough,cough NPF) that i discovered the world of sup air and tourney ball. I then started to ask one of the marshalls about it and basically got the bug

Once I realised about the scene, I investigated more and joined warped paintball based in the midlands also.......and the rest is history.


The morale of the story is very simple........

At present paintball is a VERY specialist hobby/sport.......even to punters. If I had known or seen the posters of joy in all there kit looking cool with there angels before hand....chances are I would have been balling since I was a nipper ( i'm now 31.....29/30 when i started ballin)

Anyways....beer is kicking in now.....NEED SLEEP!

 

[Raffles]

...I then started to ask one of the marshalls about it and basically got the bug

Once I realised about the scene...

There lies the root of the problem. You had to ask the marshall - the information wasn't thrust upon you. A lot of punters don't even want to look at the intimidating marshalls - because they can make you get shot more (punter-speak) - let alone ask them about something they are not there to actually talk about (they are there to work after all).

Now - if there was somebody there doing nothing but promoting tournament paintball (I still think a new name is required to make it the 'latest craze') then the information would not only have been given to you - but to everyone else as well (and maybe some of them may have got the bug).

Waiting for people to ask you about tourney ball is like waiting for Robbo and Hatts to kiss and make-up . You have to tell people about the latest craze - that's why people spend millions on advertising with no guarentee on return.

Leafleting is a start - all be it a small one - but it is a start non-the-less.

Pete - I know you think something needs to be done a a much larger scale - and you are right - but from little acorns... As a matter of interest, how did you become involved in tourney ball (just curious on that one)?

I am more than willing to hand out leaflets at our local site (assuming I am allowed to). Hell, I'll even run the gauntlet of a Friday night in our wild-west-saloon style town - and give some to the drunks - errr - young adults - as they come out of the pubs and clubs.

*ding* (this is going to cost me a fortune).

As for the Missy/Nick banter - it's not big - and it's not clever - do the rest of the forum a favour and keep it personal (via. pm). Thanks .

 

[Bedlam]

Ok, I understand the difference between reality and negativity......I've been told enough times by my team, but we(this forum) should understand the reality of the situation but we do not need the negativity.

SOOOO......

Doing nothing or doing something unguided doesn't help us at all. Saying that one person cannot make a difference is a little negative. If one person starts by saying sod it, we've got to change this situation (Sid/Andy/Whoever) then we as a sport have made a step in the right direction. If that one person can gain support from others then we can begin (as players) to get organized enough to sort something out.

But, this is all for nothing unless there is direction. We know where the sport needs to be......but how can we get there in a timely and as uncostly fashion as possible? People are right.....we need the support of the industry.....we need the support of site owners but most of all we need the players to get behind it and believe that we are trying to make a difference.

This is not naivety......this is a healthy dose of positive reality......I could sit here and bitch about the state of the sport or invidual sites/companies/players.....but that doesn't move us forward as much as positive reinforcement.......(sh*t.....thats far too pyschological)

So.....to the point of my post......I am prepared to help out in anyway I can. If it moves us closer to getting what we want (more teams at next years CC) by increasing our player base and hopefully pushing tournament play as the way into or ahead for our sport then cool, I'm in...

Now I sit back back and wait for the slagging.....be gentle with me

 

[Piper]

Wow there are some upset people on this thread, or just passionate, who knows

It seems to me that a lot of our problmes are blammed on the industry not helping out and working with sites etc, but surely not all the blame can lay on us (the industry).

So just for the fun of it................... Tell me via here or PM what you (site owners) want too see from the industry. Once I have all your ideas etc I will look at them and then talk to my bosses and see if some of the ideas fly.

So let me know

 

[Chuck]

Wow there are some upset people on this thread, or just passionate, who knows

It seems to me that a lot of our problmes are blammed on the industry not helping out and working with sites etc, but surely not all the blame can lay on us (the industry).

So just for the fun of it................... Tell me via here or PM what you (site owners) want too see from the industry. Once I have all your ideas etc I will look at them and then talk to my bosses and see if some of the ideas fly.

So let me know

Ok Andy, (Most of this is not aimed at PMI)

Stop supplying fly by night Internet paintball companies that heavily undercut sites that open shops. This is just a short termist way to shift product. Products would be better moved through outlets that have somewhere decent to use them.

If you are a distributer support your local site(s) that offer a good walk on scene, not just the ones that buy paint/equipment from you. This is specifically aimed at a certain local distributer. I have sent people their way before, but when I asked why Paintball Extreme was not listed on the walk on venue list I was told that it was because we didn't buy paint on a regular enough basis. This sort of attitude is just retarded.( we have 8 fields, Air, Sup air and 4 teams based here)

The way paint is distributed/sold to teams and individuals in the uk is also a big reason why sites do not hold regular BYO walk on days.
I have to charge £25 or less for paint to ensure people do not just order it in on the Internet. If I was to have a site paint only policy people would just go elswhere and play back yard unsupervised ball. (This is a big problem in the Colchester area).
The mark up on a box of paint and a walkon is OK if you can ensure people buy paint from you. At £25 a box the margins are quite tight, not a great incentive for operators that do not have any other reason to run walk on days than profit.
Currently we have to run the walk ons alongside Rental days which is good for the promotion of Rec ball. A well stocked shop would go a lot further converting Rental to Rec. But there is no way I would risk stocking a shop when I know that a customer can order online for an amount lower than I can buy it in at.

 

[Dave Elliott]

Why are we talking about marketing a product we can't supply?

How many places in the UK are there where someone can play supair? (Sid - are there ANY in Scotland? I know you probably own a supair field but is it up permanently or by special arrangement).
When i say play supair i mean at all levels rec / walk-on / tournament.

Its all very well producing flyers to be distributed to rec sites so people are aware of tourney but if they've got to travel 100 miles plus to even see a supair field you're going to loose a very high percentage of the people that show an initial interest.

I don't think there is a cheap or quick fix to this. It needs to start at a very local level so keen rentals see the supair at their local site and maybe even play it on a rental day. They can then play it regularly at walk-ons if they so wish which is where the "let's form a team" idea is usually mooted about.

Participation in small local tournaments and regular pracrtising on those facilities (similar to hiring the 5-aside footy pitch at the leisure centre) will then foster some sort of self belief that they are ready to enter a national tournament. We've got to be able to feed the habit from the very beginning. At the moment it's so exclusive it's prohibitive.

At the moment if one of my local customers said to me he wanted advice on how to get into tournament paintball i'd tell him to move house or wait 3 years till ive built a supair field. If any player can't even get a taste for tournament locally what ar the chances of them evolving into a Millenium player?

Quite simply there's still not enough supair around at sites to move people up a step. Fight Club etc is great for practise but would be awesomely intimidating for a newbie. Think about how teams generally evolve
Step 1. A group of players play at their local site until they're sick of punter hunting and want to stretch themselves further.

The way things are at the moment that step from woodland to supair is just too great. It needs to be integrated more into rental culture.

If you go to a BMX track or Jumps that has been recently built you will be riding on the same terrain the pro's compete on. It's the same with football or even crown green bowling.You have an accessible link to what you see in the magazines. If you go to a paintball site and all you see is trees, how are you ever going to become convinced that tournament paintball is your bag?

I realise that this put's the onus firmly on the site operators but i honestly believe that's where it has to start. The people we should be directing the marketing at are the sites. Convince them of the long term benefits and opportunities for business diversification. Once the product becomes accessible to the customers it will sell itself. I don't believe that once a player plays tournament they are lost to the site owner either, certainly not with the way you have to train to be any good these days.

 

[Robbo]

Why are we talking about marketing a product we can't supply?

How many places in the UK are there where someone can play supair? (Sid - are there ANY in Scotland? I know you probably own a supair field but is it up permanently or by special arrangement).
When i say play supair i mean at all levels rec / walk-on / tournament.

Its all very well producing flyers to be distributed to rec sites so people are aware of tourney but if they've got to travel 100 miles plus to even see a supair field you're going to loose a very high percentage of the people that show an initial interest.

I don't think there is a cheap or quick fix to this. It needs to start at a very local level so keen rentals see the supair at their local site and maybe even play it on a rental day. They can then play it regularly at walk-ons if they so wish which is where the "let's form a team" idea is usually mooted about.

Participation in small local tournaments and regular pracrtising on those facilities (similar to hiring the 5-aside footy pitch at the leisure centre) will then foster some sort of self belief that they are ready to enter a national tournament. We've got to be able to feed the habit from the very beginning. At the moment it's so exclusive it's prohibitive.

At the moment if one of my local customers said to me he wanted advice on how to get into tournament paintball i'd tell him to move house or wait 3 years till ive built a supair field. If any player can't even get a taste for tournament locally what ar the chances of them evolving into a Millenium player?

Quite simply there's still not enough supair around at sites to move people up a step. Fight Club etc is great for practise but would be awesomely intimidating for a newbie. Think about how teams generally evolve
Step 1. A group of players play at their local site until they're sick of punter hunting and want to stretch themselves further.

The way things are at the moment that step from woodland to supair is just too great. It needs to be integrated more into rental culture.

If you go to a BMX track or Jumps that has been recently built you will be riding on the same terrain the pro's compete on. It's the same with football or even crown green bowling.You have an accessible link to what you see in the magazines. If you go to a paintball site and all you see is trees, how are you ever going to become convinced that tournament paintball is your bag?

I realise that this put's the onus firmly on the site operators but i honestly believe that's where it has to start. The people we should be directing the marketing at are the sites. Convince them of the long term benefits and opportunities for business diversification. Once the product becomes accessible to the customers it will sell itself. I don't believe that once a player plays tournament they are lost to the site owner either, certainly not with the way you have to train to be any good these days.

Bang on the money Dave, bang on the money !

 

[Robbo]

Pete - I know you think something needs to be done a a much larger scale - and you are right - but from little acorns... As a matter of interest, how did you become involved in tourney ball (just curious on that one)?

I love the use of these little phrases that can be thrown in to the mix now and then to lend legitimacy to the cause, such as 'from little acorns......'.

I'm afraid those little acorns will only grow if they fall onto fertile ground and if you go running around throwing leaflet acorns into places where there are no appropriate facilities (Sup Air sites) to feed the growth then they will wither away to nothing no matter how many bloody leaflets you put out there.
And puurrrlease don't come back to me with the 'arse about face' observation that the more leaflets you throw out there, the more demand you will get and this will somehow prick the conscience of our site owners having him scurrying off to buy Sup Air fields to fulfill this newly generated customer base ...... please, don't hit me with that one

But, to answer your question Raff
I got into tourney ball because the site I was playing at (Billericay) when I first started playing held a national tournament (Survival Championships) in 88 which was the first ever proper tournament over here I believe ....that's how I got into it mate.