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UK Disgrace

MissyQ

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Jan 9, 2006
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Baca Loco said:
No.:p


Missy,
While I gladly confess to your vast experience and expertise on this topic I'm curious about a couple of things.
The rental vs. rec thing looks like a chicken and the egg debate to me. If 90% of the paintball available to the UK is rental it's hardly surprising that's what's being played. The question seems to me to be is the rental market so dominant because that's what the prospective players want or simply because they want to play paintball and that's what's on offer? (And rental is what the operators want because that's the easiest way to make money in paintball?) Without other options on offer it seems any conclusions drawn are more speculative than not?
More like the egg and the egg, as the egg has never been able to hatch into a chick, and grow into a chicken. Rental is dominant because its a proven model that has been replicated time and time again. People know they can make money setting up a rental site. Speak to the average paintballing peops and they won't even know there is a 'next stage'. The lack of Arena facilities is directly linked to a lack of funding in my opinion, or I should say a 'lack of investors'.
The German model is a good one, as it shows what is possible, even in a country where paintball is strictly controlled. I suppose an untested project is always speculative to an extent, but enough players exist already to make the first arena 'Skill School' happen. I am currently working on one in Detroit, and I hope that model will provide some answers (financial ones) that will translate to the UK.

Baca Loco said:
It reminds me of the reverse of the German model. Germany apparently is mostly tourney oriented, is that because the Germans only want to play tourney or because those who brought paintball to the marketplace brought tourney ball because that's what they wanted and because of the unique difficulties in making paintball available in Germany?
Yes, certainly parallels, but in this case I think this is a positive one, as I state above. With well organised and professional facilities available the growth of rec-ball in the UK could be the next big boom. Germany has other issues, which make rental paintball an impossibility (or at least extremely difficult) so the German situation should not be veiwed as 'thats what they all want to play' - rather "thats all they can get away with playing legally". There are exceptions, and the rental fields I know in Germany do very well.

Baca Loco said:
As for rec/rental in the U.S. every site I've ever seen (in recent years) offers the rental basics and almost everyone plays as a rental the first time or two or three. Of course nearly every site around here I've seen offers the gamut of paintball options pretty much simultaneously. I wonder if it's possible to draw accurate conclusions between the two when one system makes different sorts of paintball available routinely and one doesn't.
I don't think the US does it right either. The model I am working on in Detroit will hopefully provide me with some figures that are a little more accurate. Fact is, rec-ball is readily available in the US, and 70% of the players are playing it (figures are 3 years old, but I don't expect they have swung too far). I would like to see the UK rental philosophy of customer service and a structured day transfered onto a rec-ball environment. This, for me, is the best way to ensure this customer base is protected and the maximum amount of people progress from here to playing at the higher levels (and buying high end guns of course)., These skill schools should be where the teams send thier scouts. The Pro's train there, and for a fee they can train any potential paintball team and thus tap into additional revenue streams.

Baca Loco said:
And only 4 or 5 sites over an area comparable to the UK? Where? Montana? North Dakota? There's at least 30 stores and fields within an hour or so of me in central Florida. If there are 300 or so mostly rental sites in Britain that suggests a couple of things to me. The rental market is lucrative enough to continue attracting people to open fields and/or there are more than enough players to support them. Either way doesn't that suggest there might be an opportunity there to expand the paintball on offer?
Well Southern California has 3 fields (unless I missed any), I know that the North-East and Florida are blessed with a lot of paintball venues, but I don't think that generally applies to the rest of the States. But yes, there is room for an expansion of options in the UK. I just want to see it done well, and in a way that showcases Arena-based paintball as a well-organised sport that can be attractive to a high percentage of rental customers who are used to structured paintball.
 

Takedown

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MissyQ said:
Well Southern California has 3 fields (unless I missed any)
Hey MissyQ,

There are 17 fields that I know of:

SC Village (Corona)
CPP (Castaic)
Warped (Castaic)
Paintball Fury (Acton)
Palmdale Indoor (Pamdale)
OC Asylum (Anaheim)
Camarillo Indoor (Camarillo)
Hollywood Sports (Bellflower)
MR Paintball (Ramona)
Velocity (Ramona)
Jungle Island (Lake Elsinore)
Camp Pendleton (Oceanside)
Conquest (North Hollywood)
Close Encounters (Newhall)
Fields of Fire (Newhall)
Splat Factory (Brea)
Urban Quest (Oxnard)
 

MissyQ

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Then I stand corrected, and some of those fields are close to me so I should have remembered them, but I though several of the other ones were in NorCal...

Either way thanks for the update.
 

Takedown

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Nick Brockdorff said:
So one important point would be upgrading their guns, which is where a supplier could help them out by offering a payment plan, instead of expecting full payment at once...... to the best of my knowledge, you, better than most, will be able to appreciate the benefits of being able to run high end guns for your rental customers.
What is the reasoning for running high end guns? It doesn't make sense to me, they are more expensive, break down more often, and don't offer a better experience to the customer. The successful fields here offer one rental gun, usually a tippman, spyder or clone.

The rental customers should get a reliable gun and then when they move on to walkon play they either go buy a like gun from a store or get something with a bit more juice.
 

Takedown

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MissyQ said:
Then I stand corrected, and some of those fields are close to me so I should have remembered them, but I though several of the other ones were in NorCal...

Either way thanks for the update.
Hi Missy,

Just wanted you to be aware :) There are more fields in mid-nor cal. I know of 3-4 in the middle of CA and probably another 4+ in NorCal.
 

Takedown

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MissyQ said:
Thanks Take-down, I hadn't realised those guys were there. Perhaps they also need the marketing guys help?
LOL, perhaps :) It's amazing that they all can stay open.

Here are the places that are FPO:

Splat Factory
Palmdale Indoor
OC Asylum
Hollywood Sports
Camarillo

The first 4 all have days/nights where it's BYOP, which appeals directly to the tournament players crowd, because now the serious players can play during the week and it does not cost them an arm and a leg. The field is still getting $20-$30/person, but that's more then they would get if they were either closed or still FPO on those nights. 3 of those 5 fields are also indoor. The remaining 2 are outdoor in a sense, but are set in the city and therefore their rent is higher. The remaining fields are all BYOP outdoor fields.
 

Robbo

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Sid_Clan said:
My eyes hurt!!!!!

Anyway, has this thread changed the number of UK Teams entering Campaign, or are they looking on this thread as a slate the UK site owners issue....just curious....because if they are, it defeats the purpose of the original thread don't you think...or maybe it's just me.

Sid

I think the number has gone up to 30 something but I am not sure that has anything to do with this thread, tho I would like to think it has, I think it has more to do with teams leaving it late to enter.
The pricking of any moral consciences isn't really gonna translate itself into teams changing their mind whether or not to play at this stage.
 

Sid_Clan

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Robbo said:
I think the number has gone up to 30 something but I am not sure that has anything to do with this thread, tho I would like to think it has, I think it has more to do with teams leaving it late to enter.
The pricking of any moral consciences isn't really gonna translate itself into teams changing their mind whether or not to play at this stage.
UK Team especially from South of the border leave big UK events to the last minute mate, you and I both know that, they are in a position to just say yeah, let's play, we can jump in the car and be there in x hours, European Teams need flights, hotels, etc etc, so I would hazard a guess it would go up.

As for anything to do with this thread, if they read up to and not including pages say 1-7 then maybe, after that it's just a bunch of people who have swallowed dictionaries and want to rant about how things are ***t in the UK and so much better in the rest of the sunny paintball world, which to be honest is not doing anyone any good, especially the players that actually look up to these guys...come on....you want to rant, open a rant forum, don't hijack a thread for your own use to slag off and show off, Robbo is trying to get a message across...slate me, ban me, most of you know me, straight talking, think about it for a second, I don't care who has what fields, or who's country can make sup air work...is it changing the amount of teams entered to campaign...NO, is UK Paintball going to change overnight...NO, so give it a rest and maybe try thinking about the people reading this thread, you know, Mr New guy who wants to play tournament paintball, then reads this thread then decides there is tooooooo much bitchin in paintball and decides maybe rec-ball is better.....Uk Tournament Paintball is in a state, too much fightin, back stabbing and ego's(Not Planets obviously ;) ), you want to change it then fine, make suggestions, and pull it back to where it belongs. This is old news, old ground, and unless the PLAYERS and SITE OWNERS get off their ar$es and start promoting the sport then we are going to have this exact same thread in 12 months....

See you at Campaign....

Sid