Ton Tons @ CC

[John C]

Scums, *******s, cheaters.... what else ?

Originally posted by ptit_mat

And there is the funny reason as well that you should know, we have Shockers with the new solenoid by the way and you can't turn up the dwell and take feets lol, with this bolt system,

Hi and welcome to the forums.
Your statement is very interesting, but Manike and Peegee have already posted on here saying it is possible, so if you can elaborate as to why changing dwell doesn not affect velocity I would appreciate it.

Originally posted by ptit_mat

Anyone can test it on an oscilloscope or use a good radar as SP have and you'll see it is legal and it have no dwell compasation.

In that case, can you explain how ADOC works?
If it doesnt adjust the dwell then what does it adjust?
Or is it just an imaginary features used to sell more boards because in my mind that is just as bad.



PS You guys rocked in Birmingham.

 

[John C]

Reloaded Board by FCP

Originally posted by ptit_mat


So, "John C", what you suppose is wrong. ADOC does NOT means "that it increases the dwell when you are shooting fast, to 'combat drop off'.".

If you want to combat drop off, ask Smart Part to redesign their guns!!!

As I mentioned above ADOC is NOT ACTIVATED in LEGAL tournament modes!!! But, even it was, BUT IT IS NOT, what player would wait for 20 seconds in a tournement just to get the ADOC shot and see the paintball fall 2 feets in front of him...

It's not serious!!!

Sorry but I am still confused.

You have a feature called

•First Shot Boost after inactivity
ie ABS


and one called ADOC

What you have described as ADOC sounds to me like ABS (the first feature)

 

[Beaker]

ptit_mat

Again - welcome to the boards

I've read your comments about ADOC, and think you might need to make it a bit clearer in your press releases.

Also, I am against any form of enhancement to the first shot - whoevers board it is in.

However, your comments about

we have Shockers with the new solenoid by the way and you can't turn up the dwell and take feets lol, with this bolt system,

Contradicts your ADOC comments as that increases the dwell on the first shot and increases the FPS achieved.

So either you can increase the dwell and FPS, or you can't...

As for the breakout mode - how is that "reactiveated"? does turning the marker off then back on reset the 3 shots semi then full auto count? I am well aware that other boards have the same feature, and am equally concerned with them. Hence my questions regarding a scrutineer and whether any other boards (like THump) were caught at Campaign

 

[manike]

I'm a little confused still also, but appreciate ptit_mat's comments very much.

It sounds like he has ABS (First shot boost) which comes on after 20 seconds. Are the gun's really that bad???

And that ADOC is simply a way of making sure he maintains an accurate rof count. I.e. if you adjust the dwell, he compensates the remaining time in the cycle to make sure you always get a shot exactly every 65ms. Kind of a standard thing anyone would do...

If that's the case the wording is just very ambiguos and implies it does something it does not.

That's not directly adjusting the recharge as the gun's rof goes up. It's just adjusting the time in the cycle to make sure you get the full rof allowed.

It's just the hold off time, and to imply that maintains velocity is implying some major issues in the gun that I just can't believe happen, when it's at any value less than that...?

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

Nick, me and you both know, we are never gonna have absolute proof of their deeds in the past but you know me well enough not to have jumped on these *******s unless I was sure.

Pete:

While I absolutely trust you, I am concerned with matters of principle.

You see, once we go down a road where the Tontons are banned on accusation alone, it opens the door to - for instance - Nexus being banned, because someone accuses the team of doing something wrong, merely in spite.

You're not exactly the least known personage in paintball - everyone has an oppinion on Pete Robinson - and that means that while a lot of people like and respect you, there are others who feel the opposite way, who would be very inclined to throw such accusations about.

While I understand your outrage in the matter at hand, I also think it is important to keep perspective and look further ahead

Nick

 

[FCP_Vince]

Hello there !

I am glad at least to be able to post my owm replies in this thread!
After 2 days being stuck with the activation, I finally used an hotmail account which seems to work instantly !!!

As a matter or fact, Here am I.

Two things, to answer Beaker.

First, FSB is not an official acronym in the documentation. The documentation states: "First shot boost (DOC) after inactivity". Nothing more. What is important here is the DOC, which is now caled ADOC.
I still have to improve my documentation release process and track down funny acronyms that might confuse peoples... Sorry for that. But Drop Off Control or Automatic Drop Off Control (depending on what release of the doc you refer) is only activated on the fisrt shot, after 20 seconds and only in FCP mode.

Second thing, I confirm that ADOC, will open the DWELL for an extra time (which is defined by the user), but that extra time will not necessarely boost your FPS. This for many reasons as stated in the documentation on page 25 :"Automatic Drop Off Control (ADOC) – Due to electrical and pneumatic leakages of the solenoid, when the marker has been left sitting for a long period (approx. more than 30 seconds), the first shot suffers of drop off.
To avoid this, The ADOC feature will add an additional dwell boost to the first shot after such a long inactivity. "
So, the DWELL extra time will only allow the chamber to reach zero psi. But depending on the leackage, the ball will just get out of the barrel (which is what we want) or fly for 2 or 3 meters in the air. All that depends on you gun, its greasing, its age, etc...

For exemple, ADOC is pretty inefficient on the last generation of Shockers. SP has change the solenoid and the bolt.
On old generation it is much more efficient and the result is totaly different. You will blow the fisrt paint in spray !!

In most case, if it is correctly set what you obtain is a ball coming out of the barrel and faling at your feet, but it is enougth to avoir playing with your squigy !!!! This is what ADOC is set to do...

This functionnality is called ABS for Anti Bold Stick on TADAO, but I am quite sure that IT is ACTIVATED in tournament modes !!!!!

And to Manike:
Sorry Manike. ADOC is related to boosting the fisrt shoot after 20 seconds in FCP mode only.
It is in no way "related to something keaping the ROF accurate"...
You mix up ADOC and ROF but I understand why... I explain how it works...

Yes it is rigth that the DWELL compensation is related to the ROF. So when ADOC touches the DWELL it changes the ROF, IF and only IF, you don't play on what I call the RECHARGE time, to keep the shooting cycle at the same duration.

But since, ADOC does a DWELL compensation ONLY on one Ball, and in a mode that should not be used in tournament, you actually don't really care of the ROF. because that particular ball is a miss, for sure.

Maintaining the ROF is very standard actually as you pointed out. But for simplicity reason there was no ROF parameter in the previous firmware of the Reloaded (up to version 1.57). Since we introduced the ROF parameter in release 2.00, we have to make sure that it is accurate. The dwell compensation has no special acronym... As you say, it is obvious to do so... SO...

I have also to thanks Manike and Beaker for speaking much more calmly now that 'Pti MAt' and I have been abble to explain things in this forum.

I also thanks Nick Brockdorff that has been the first to point out that the RELOADED is not belonging to the TONTON. And this while I was not abble to defend the RELOADED and my work, because of the authentification process!!!

Thanks again for not mixing the users and the product !!

Vincent
Founder of FCP

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
Pete:

While I absolutely trust you, I am concerned with matters of principle.

You see, once we go down a road where the Tontons are banned on accusation alone, it opens the door to - for instance - Nexus being banned, because someone accuses the team of doing something wrong, merely in spite.

You're not exactly the least known personage in paintball - everyone has an oppinion on Pete Robinson - and that means that while a lot of people like and respect you, there are others who feel the opposite way, who would be very inclined to throw such accusations about.

While I understand your outrage in the matter at hand, I also think it is important to keep perspective and look further ahead

Nick

I agree 100% in keeping perspective and that is exactly why I want them out, if it was any less than endangering people's safety then I would of course, not be calling for their heads.

But i sat down and talked with one of the people at Campaign who was in attendance in a meeting with two of their representatives where they were specifically asking for velocity ramping chips on their markers, as i said, this request was flat out denied.
These guys have no honour, no respect and seemingly no limits in their pursuit to win games of paintball.

We cannot ever prove 100% in an absolute sense that they did use velocity ramped guns, you know that, we all know that but sometimes, even in law, it is the weight of evidence that has to be assessed and not absolute proof, this is the case in civil courts I believe.

And if it’s ok for the English judiciary to use this system then I would guess it’s ok for us to use in Paintball.
The only alternative to this is to err on the side that you advocate which would have us do nothing and at the same time the Ton Tons would be laffing from ear to ear as they once again went onto the field with velocity ramped guns.
Not only do these ****-heads use these guns to win games illegally, they also constantly overkill with them whereby they have had players banned, not a good combination of behaviours I might suggest.
On the balance of evidence, anybody would be a fool to allow their players going on the field against them, absolute proof or not.

 

[Mark Toye-Nexus]

I got this from a trusted friend of mine two days after Campaign and just as this was all kicking off;

"About the Ton Tons, take this with a grain of salt, but the Spanish team there was staging near to the Ton Tons and had a little chit chat with them. Their captain told me that they not only were shooting over 15 bps but bragging about how they were shooting 25."

Now this guy has no reason to lie - no motives that drive him to say anything that he doesnt believe is true. Just an Am team that were shocked by what they were hearing straight from the Ton Ton mouths.

 

[FCP_Vince]

As Beaker said :

My comment about the Breakout mode is that is openly advetised as being able to replicate any mode. I would be interested to see if any guns were turned off/on by a scruinteer to see if a breakout mode was activated again - hence my other comments previously about a Millennium scrutineer, and whether anyone got caught with a THump board (that has breakout modes).

A scruinteer could be a good thing, it is the only way to make sure people does not use the board with incorrect setting.
But this is very unlikly to happen since this would mean that you very deeply check the board settings for each player, with any kind of gun and any kind of board!

An other way to do that is to give people official boards, programmed by the rulers and accept only those boards. But this is also complicated! 'Cause you'll have to address any kind of gun, in a world on variety !!!!

A third option would be to give all the players, guns !!!

You take an official gun at the entrance of the field, you play, you give the gun back !!!!! Every body is on the same stage !!!

It's the only way, you can see the REAL value of teams. If they all play with the same official equipement!!!

Vincent

 

[manike]

Originally posted by FCP_Vince It's the only way, you can see the REAL value of teams. If they all play with the same official equipement!!!

One design. It's been done in many sports but I don't see that happening any time soon in paintball.

Good to see that your stock board doesn't adjust the dwell on the fly, I suggest making it a little clearer in the product description.