This Millennium 15BPS rule...

[sjt19]

If you are so bothered about unity, wouldnt the fact that there are conflicting series around the world all running different formats be more of an issue to a wider audience than slightly different rules. The rules are largely the same. You are hit, youare out. Cheat and get penalised.

many of the busier men you talk about, using politicians as an example are paid and employed purely to debate things round a table. How often do conferences and such end in stalemate.......Israle vs Palestine....IRA vs GB Government......Koyoto Protocol..........G8 summits...... These guys are paid to debate and often they cant agree on anything other than that they should afford themselves a pay rise.

Figures in paintball, Laurent, Niall, Manfred, Pedro, Hatts, Russ to name the ones you are talking about have busy lives with their own businesses. If they had endless time to attend meetings then i would agree with you. But they dont.
I genuinely do not see any problems with the things as they are in regard of separate rule books. Its not as if they are that different anyway, a phrase here, a word there. Its not as if in the MS you can play on when you are hit, and the PA you cannot. If there were major changes then maybe something should be done. But there is not, so there is no need to.

I marshalled and played in the NPPL, the Millennium Series 7 man, EXL Xball, Dartford 7's (PA rules) all of which have slightly different rules. I had no problems as a player or judge, and that is playing 4 different series'.

 

[mark5evo]

Originally posted by Wadidiz
I know it's hard to see how things happen or don't behind the scenes. And there are a lot of discussion amongst different league personnel at the big tournaments but they are often just catch-as-you-can between while in a hectic pace.

I can also point out that I proposed a "summit" about this issue well before Toulouse last year and tried to get it set up for that tournament since so many influencial people attend. I suppose I was niave or had delusions about people listening to something I suggested.

Thats whats needed but is it really that hard to get everyone together, please don't tell me they wont unless theres is something for them in it?

So, if I pay an NPPL or MS event and pay my entry for the season there is no way I can have input to that series officially e.g. annual meeting or such like?

Even a European Federation would be a start but I guess thats too much to hope for ...............

 

[Wadidiz]

While we're at it, Joern Windler--Millennium's rule commissioner, and several others of us spent many hours trying to totally unify the Millennium 7-player rules with NPPL's. There were one or two NPPL referees who contributed to this project but it seemed to have been totally ignored by their leadership. I suppose if you're successful why bother?

 

[mark5evo]

Originally posted by sjt19


If you are so bothered about unity, wouldnt the fact that there are conflicting series around the world all running different formats be more of an issue to a wider audience than slightly different rules. The rules are largely the same. You are hit, youare out. Cheat and get penalised.

many of the busier men you talk about, using politicians as an example are paid and employed purely to debate things round a table. How often do conferences and such end in stalemate.......Israle vs Palestine....IRA vs GB Government......Koyoto Protocol..........G8 summits...... These guys are paid to debate and often they cant agree on anything other than that they should afford themselves a pay rise.

Figures in paintball, Laurent, Niall, Manfred, Pedro, Hatts, Russ to name the ones you are talking about have busy lives with their own businesses. If they had endless time to attend meetings then i would agree with you. But they dont.
I genuinely do not see any problems with the things as they are in regard of separate rule books. Its not as if they are that different anyway, a phrase here, a word there. Its not as if in the MS you can play on when you are hit, and the PA you cannot. If there were major changes then maybe something should be done. But there is not, so there is no need to.

I marshalled and played in the NPPL, the Millennium Series 7 man, EXL Xball, Dartford 7's (PA rules) all of which have slightly different rules. I had no problems as a player or judge, and that is playing 4 different series'.

You are of course right :' however with that said one meeting is surely not beyond the realms of possibility surely?

Of course the issues you highlight are important and may in fact be more important than a unified set of rules however, I was attempting to start at a place that was a potential quick win

I am however glad that you have identified some other areas that require focus, thanks for your support!

 

[sjt19]

Knowing how busy Niall is with Campaign, i would imagine that Laurent with Adrenaline Games and Sup Air Ball, Pedro with Tomohawk and i think he has a site as well, and Manfred will be busy also a meeting would be hard to schedule. Finding time in a busy schedule is often harder than people expect, especially if there are the 5 members of the MS board, plus people like Beard (well, used to be him anyway), and Joern the rules guy, plus others from the rules comittee and you have anywhere between 5 and ten people who would have to arrange to meet up. Challenging.

I do not think that there are any quick fixes to the issue of gun cheats/gun monitoring. Just different approaches to it. The NXL has one approach, the MS, NPPL and PA have their own ways with dealing with the problems. Only time will tell who has the most effective solution.

Something to bear in mind though is that laws in each country in the MS are different. The NXL can easily implement a unified rule, as their events take place only in the USA where the modes of fire they have are legal. Largely in Europe they are not.

The NPPL have chosen not to 'give in' to gun cheats and are obviously confident that with their robot they can tackle gun cheats. We will have to see if that is a sucessful approach. One isue that was mentioned at the NPPL meeting in San Diego was that any change in the gun rules, i.e to full auto would mean that the NPPL would have to purchase a far more expensive insurance policy, which in turn would translate in to higher entry fees or less prize money. insurance is a key factor in the management of this issue

 

[gaff]

Originally posted by sjt19
you have anywhere between 5 and ten people who would have to arrange to meet up. Challenging.

lets get this into context guys! the MS is a business! the NPPL is a business! Businesses have meetings, loads of meetings, video conference calls, telephone conference calls, people fly around the world for business!

why is it that paintball oh so wants to be a big corporate entity with TV and media coverage, but they are not prepared to act as a legitimate business does to 'DO BUSINESS'?? baffles me!

(Sam not a dig at you, you just used the right words for me to to reply to!)

 

[mark5evo]

Originally posted by gaff
lets get this into context guys! the MS is a business! the NPPL is a business! Businesses have meetings, loads of meetings, video conference calls, telephone conference calls, people fly around the world for business!

why is it that paintball oh so wants to be a big corporate entity with TV and media coverage, but they are not prepared to act as a legitimate business does to 'DO BUSINESS'?? baffles me!

(Sam not a dig at you, you just used the right words for me to to reply to!)

At last someone else who can't understand why the paintball "business" seems not to be able to engage itself like any other business no matter how diverse.

 

[sjt19]

Originally posted by gaff
lets get this into context guys! the MS is a business! the NPPL is a business! Businesses have meetings, loads of meetings, video conference calls, telephone conference calls, people fly around the world for business!

why is it that paintball oh so wants to be a big corporate entity with TV and media coverage, but they are not prepared to act as a legitimate business does to 'DO BUSINESS'?? baffles me!

(Sam not a dig at you, you just used the right words for me to to reply to!)

No problem Gaff

i think it lays in the fact that the MS is not the first business priority of each of the members of the MS board/associates. The main business focus has to be on the primary money earner for each of the members, e.g Adrenaline for Laurent, and Tomohawk for Pedro and Campaign for Niall.

If the members of the board had no other job, and relied 100% on the MS for their income then i would imagine that the focus would be on that and it would be run in the way that many people feel is the manner in which a business should be run.

It is not the best way of putting it, but maybe it is treated more as a hobby than a business, and as such does not get as much time apportioned to it as some people would like.

 

[Gyroscope]

Getting everyone to sit down and parse out some reasonable rules would be difficult enough, in terms of logistics, semantics (rule books make gripping reading), and competing rational interests. But on top of all that, there is bitter animousity between promoters of the US leagues. These two leagues are where the biggest differences lie (it sounds like the MS is drifting toward a PSP type stance on gun rules). I can't see the owners of Smart Parts and WDP, K2 and National (actually, maybe not that much of a stretch- National has seemed rational to me of late) sitting down to a weekend of ironing out differences in rules to make their respective tournament products less distinguishable from one another.

I think the poisoned environment will preclude any daisy chain meetings on the Riviera.

 

[A.B]

so................

How does the millenium believe that this proposed rule will make it possible to distinguish the cheat boards from true semi?

15bps max rof- goggle manufacturers say this is all they can guarantee their product at- fine 15 bps it is

But how will a marshall be able to tell whether a gun has a cheat board capped at 15 bps or is a true semi firing at just under 15bps( assuming they pull the trigger at the exact intervals required to achieve this)?- they cant, we're in the same situation except a bps cap has been set.

Nick i know how you feel about enhanced modes- i'm not happy about the thought of ramping bps- but having read a hell of a lot of posts and discussing this i cannot see how the playing field can be equal without allowing;

Any mode apart from FA up to a max rof of 15 bps provided a minimum of (insert minimum) bps is achieved and maintained.

i don't give a monkeys what other leagues want to do- i want to play the millenium even tho it is rapidly becoming seriously overpriced (seperate issue)- i want a rule that IS enforcable- the proposed rule is no more enforcable than previous attempts at outing cheat modes-

so someone answer me that- if i can be told that this will prevent cheat modes i will support the rule fully- it doesn't in my opinion do this as it stands.

A.B