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This Millennium 15BPS rule...

Baca Loco

Ex-Fun Police
You sir, are a counter-revolutionary wrecker

Originally posted by Crpstack
Well

1--If I bought a gun and a halo on my hard earned money wich is able to shoot 20+ more I would like to use it and I dont think Im alone with that.It has no cheaterboard and 100% legal yet its able to shoot WAY faster than 15bps I will take it to you if youre interested at MM to inspect.

2--Well I am concerned about the effects this ruling will cause as if sponsors pay less money due to diminishing sales we the players will be financially exploited again.

3--There are people paid to make the rules and if I vote with my money on them (like there is any choice if u from EU) I expect something less restricting and unsophisticated. Ofcourse by the end of this year we will see where this leads and next year we will bear the consequences be it good or bad.

4--But in an age where we have guns capable of shooting 20+ and XBall, going back to 15bps and no Xball leaves a really bitter taste in some ppl's mouth. Im one of them...
1--Case in point. Utter rubbish. You (or someone else) may indeed have a gun that can pass current subjective testing and get on a field but is in no way 100% legal while easily shooting 20+ bps.
2--again?! Are you suggesting the players were once exploited but aren't any longer? And that money from PB industry makes the difference? [Not only are you a counter-revolutionary wrecker you are a running dog for the capitalist PB overlords.] (Thought ITN would like this stuff . . .)
3--Which people would that be? Part of the problem is that there isn't any people -- other than those putting on the events -- taking or wanting any responsibility for much of anything and half of your problem is seemingly that the promoters are acting in a high-handed manner by trying to come up with some functional solution.
As it stands the restriction the rule hopes to impose is in the nearly unrestrained use of illegal guns. Nor do I see how you get any more "unsophisticated" than leaving the "legality" of every gun entering a field up to the subjective judgement of chrono judges or the higher review of field ultimates based on nothing more than their good faith subjective efforts. [It's worse than I thought--you're a tool of the oppressors.]
4--out of curiosity who did you play Xball for last season? The reason I ask is because besides the EXL teams almost nobody in Euroland played and it's hard to be deprived of something you didn't participate in, in the first place.
Otherwise you're feeling blue and put out by the MS 'cus they's taken away your Xball and want you to play in the future with a verifiably legal gun. Is that about right? Bummer.
 

Wadidiz

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For those that weren't around last season here's what we had to endure:

¤ irritating bounce-tests that naturally varied from individual to individual while hearing the moaning of the players

¤ guns-down tests after the 10-second warning that were very anticlimactic and unwelcome by players and public alike--while hearing the moaning of the players

¤ trying to get a gun that we saw shooting what looked like Star War laser beams to do it in our hands--95% of time unsuccessfully--while hearing the moaning of the players

¤ having to suspend players who probably had no idea their guns were cheating (including some who were said to have just bought them and used them for the first time.)

¤ having players claim that their guns were stock

¤ getting lambasted for favoritism (unjustly)

¤ having to listen to players moan because we used too many of their balls or too much of their air

And the list goes on and on...

Reffing is hard enough without all that.
 

Wadidiz

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You sir, are a counter-revolutionary wrecker

Stellar post my bovine comrade.

I've been meaning to post the proposed PSP rules changes from PbNation, posted by Chris Raehl. Here goes:

___________________________

- No more than 2 shots within 65 milliseconds (ms) (That's 15.4 bps, same as NXL)
- You gotta pull the trigger 4 times before the gun can leave semi-auto mode (i.e. if there are 1-3 pulls, that's the number of balls that can come out. 4th pull on and anything less than 15.4 bps is ok)
- The gun has to stop shooting within 150 ms of the last trigger press. (That's three shots, one at 0 ms, one at 65 ms, and one at 130 ms; so you've basically gotta keep pulling every 195 ms (a little better than 5 bps) to stay at 15.4 bps.) That also means that if you hold down the trigger, and the gun stops shooting, and then you release the trigger and it shoots again, it's illegal.
- If you stop shooting for over a second, you have to do the 4 shots again to get into non-semi mode.

*OR*

- You can use a true-semi-auto mechanical marker (mechanical bounce will still get you a forfeit).

In both cases, the old rule that says your marker can't fire unless you actually pull the trigger (so no hitting it, dropping it, whatever and having it shoot) stays.


Now, I'm sure the first question is "Do I have to get a new board?" My impression from Rosie is that at least in the short term, if you have an "old" board, and you don't shoot over 15.4 bps on the field, and pulling the trigger 1-3 times only gets you that number of shots, you're fine.

For example, if your gun can be made to shoot faster than 15.4 bps, but only by pulling the trigger faster than 15.4 bps, and you don't go faster than 15.4 bps during a game, that's ok. If the ref pulls the trigger at anything less than 15.4 bps and gets more than 15.4 bps, you're busted.
________________________

AGAIN NOTE: These are NOT the details of Millennium's new rules. I have no idea what they are.
 

USELESS

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As a question to those alot cleverer than me (cant be arsed working it out )how many milliseconds would be needed to get literally 15 shots off in a second i would think it would be pretty low and impossible to achieve would be a injustice to have players pulled in events for the one time they managed to get their fingers moving quickly enough to go over 15BPSA

BPSA= balls per second average which is what it really is
Anybody :(
 

Nick Brockdorff

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Steve

¤ irritating bounce-tests that naturally varied from individual to individual while hearing the moaning of the players

¤ guns-down tests after the 10-second warning that were very anticlimactic and unwelcome by players and public alike--while hearing the moaning of the players

¤ trying to get a gun that we saw shooting what looked like Star War laser beams to do it in our hands--95% of time unsuccessfully--while hearing the moaning of the players

¤ having to suspend players who probably had no idea their guns were cheating (including some who were said to have just bought them and used them for the first time.)

¤ having players claim that their guns were stock

¤ getting lambasted for favoritism (unjustly)

¤ having to listen to players moan because we used too many of their balls or too much of their air
Which of these "problems" will the proposed rule remove ?

I have not heard anyone say the bounce test is going to be removed this season.... so maybe ONE of the above points refer tlo the rulechange you propose.

Let me repeat - I'm ALL for paintball universally capping ROF at 15 BPS. - I think it's a great idea for a number of reasons (safety, not scaring newbies away, making various cheatmodes obsolete, making it easier on refs, etc.

BUT.... I would like it very much indeed, if the rules and testing methods actually enforced 15 BPS - not something that for many players will mean 8-10 BPS effectively - UNLESS they get a cheatboard to help them (which you will be unalble to detect).

The way I see it, the proposed rule will drive many players to get cheat boards that allow them to maintain an even 65-66ms between shots, by storing or other methods, that the officials will never be able to catch.

I hope a better solution than the proposed one is available.

Nick
 

Wadidiz

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Hey Nick,

Did you read the post about the proposed PSP rules? Did you read some of the posts on that same thread about how players are adjusting their guns and have tried them?

The reason I ask is because I agree for the most part with those proposals. I believe Millennium ought to allow electronic enhancement after the third trigger activation. Again, that is my opinion on the issue; don't know what the details of Millennium's rule will be.

And you're right: the bounce test needs to still be in place. But I hope it will be so well standardized that there won't be as many hassles and complaints about it as last year.
 

jotajotaZ

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Why is storing (for a reasonable time) bad?

You have a 65 ms window to activate your marker, if you pull the trigger 65ms after the previous pull you get less than 15 bps, as much as you can with your fingers. If you pull the trigger before that you store the shot for the next 130 ms, giving you the chance to shoot every 65 ms if you are able to pull the trigger faster than 15 Hz.

I don't see why anyone able to shoot at or over 15 bps should be concerned.

To me there are two sides to this ROF cap. One is the "let's make it less interesting to cheat" which I don't agree with since I don't think the cap is a solution. The other side is the security one, and there the ROF cap makes sense and (with proper shot storing) does not make any player able to shoot 16 bps shoot 8 or 9 bps.

Or maybe I'm completely mistaken here, not being marker electronics my area of expertise at all :)
 

Wadidiz

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Steve

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
Which of these "problems" will the proposed rule remove ?
IF done according to what I'm proposing the following wouldn't be necessary/likely:

¤ guns-down tests after the 10-second warning that were very anticlimactic and unwelcome by players and public alike--while hearing the moaning of the players

Because the guns would be tested for ROF and FPS discreetly during games

¤ trying to get a gun that we saw shooting what looked like Star War laser beams to do it in our hands--95% of time unsuccessfully--while hearing the moaning of the players

Because everyone would be shooting 15.4bps or less

¤ having to suspend players who probably had no idea their guns were cheating (including some who were said to have just bought them and used them for the first time.)

Because everyone will be able to confirm what their gun set-ups are capable of before playing

¤ having players claim that their guns were stock

won't make any difference (and didn't last year either)

¤ getting lambasted for favoritism (unjustly)

(Regarding ROF/FPS) The instruments should provide blind justice

¤ having to listen to players moan because we used too many of their balls or too much of their air

Won't need to do more than a bounce-test using only a few balls