Ramping - Robbo's Article in PGI 195
- Thread starter Syd (NSPL)
- Start date
Ben - the firing modes have everything to do with it - and full auto/ramping nudge us further and further towards firearm in the eyes of the law.
Airsoft? Yeah we dealt with that one - unless you produced that ammo you mentioned?
Look at shot guns and licences - double barreled - ok.
Single barrel semi-auto? Ok as long as it can fire only two shots without reloading. Capable of firing any more and it cannot be covered on the licence and becomes an illegal firarm. Same ammunition, different scenario.
Look at fully auto shot guns - totally illegal, no compromise.
See where we are going?
Edd - my old mukka - you missed the 'joke' there I think. Anyway let's not turn this into another PA vs. Raffles type thread - I've had enough of them to last me a life time
.Some like ramping - some don't - simple. I actually stated (in all seriousness) that I will not be playing in any tournament that allows ramping. Fortunately, that isn't too many at the moment. Oh, and in case you are wondering, I have been asked by a few teams to play for them in this years PA - but I politely refused - for the reasons just stated.
And, to quote Jud, "It's all about the love"
But a paintball marker isn't glassed as a firearm because of it lethality (or lack thereof).
So it isn't going to matter what mode it fires in, exactly the same as it doesn't matter what mode air soft or a foam dart gun fires in.
My question is this...
Full auto didn't make air soft guns illigal did it? Why would it with paintball?
the way i would ask any high court or judge to see the situation would be ...
GUn ... GUN POWDER to prject the bullet at immense speeds.
MArker...Compressed gas to project a ball full of paint 250 ft.
Gun powder ...bolt....Gun powder...Bolt...
GUn ... GUN POWDER to prject the bullet at immense speeds.
MArker...Compressed gas to project a ball full of paint 250 ft.
Gun powder ...bolt....Gun powder...Bolt...
Have to agree. I've been saying the same thing ever since this whole ramping/bouncing/full auto business came to the forefront again.
Haven't read the article, but it sounds interesting, I'll have to pick it up.
D
duffistuta
Guest
Yet.
These things are not static Ben - before 1988 you could own a self-loading rifle in the UK; post Hungerford, they became illegal.
Pre Dunblane you could own a handgun, now they are illegal.
There have been several air rifle incidents in the UK recently - odds are air rifles will go on-ticket very soon.
Now, are there more lethal weapons legally available than handguns in the UK? Of course there are. Legislation doesn't necessarily make sense - especially when you've got the Daily Mail screaming out alarmist headlines and working people up into a frenzy ever 5 minutes.
Are Paintball guns potentially lethal? Yes. Are ramping guns more likely to cause a fatality than non-ramping? Yes. If this happens, how long before Paintball guns go on ticket or are banned? Not very long.
Ramping increases the potentiality for Paintball to get banned or heavily regulated. That is unarguable.
Now, whether you think becoming more heavily regulated is a good thing anyway, or is worthwhile if we can play with ramping guns, is another question altogether.
Guys Guys Guys
Paintball markers are not even classed as "dangerous airweapons". So why is fully auto/ramping not legal (on paper). If you had a toy dart gun that fired darts fully auto that is legal right?
Airsoft weapons can go fully auto because they are very very light projectiles but so are paintballs (relative to the speed). Most FULLY auto BB guns use electrics AEGs to fire rather than gas propelled so I guess the they cant be classed as an airweapon. If I remember you can fire a metal BB at 550FPS or there abouts aslong as its bolt action.
I aint 100% about why fully auto is illegal for paintballer markers.
Doesnt fully auto state :
With one trigger pull the marker will keep firing untill the the mag/hopper/clip is emptied.
If you fired 30 shots then it stoped that would just be a 30 shot burst unless you held the trigger down untill the mag was empty.
Real weapons like an MP5 are only used in semi, the police are only allowed to use thier weapons on semi. The goverment seems to think that semi auto weapons are safer...which I agree with. But a paintball marker is about as harmfull as a toy dart gun aslong as you got protection on.
It is illegal to own a fully auto firearm/airweapon in the UK but if you fire over 330fps your paintball marker technically "a dangerous airweapon" as it exceeds 12lb/ft*2.
Then you technically can convert a paintball marker to a "dangerous airweapon" and if it can go fully auto then that is illegal - very illegal. This is my presumption on why full auto paintball markers are illegal.
The XBall 3 shot then fully auto isnt actually fully auto as you arent emptying the entire hopper with one trigger pull. Technically its 4 trigger pulls so surely this can bypass the law.
The UKPSF say that anything over 1 shot per trigger pull is illegal ( think that needs updated) but would that mean bounce is illegal i the UK.. I mean come on....
These are just some of the arguments. This is the eternal argument. Just remember folks IN SCOTLAND PAINTBALL WAS BANNED after the dunblane massacre. In the Isle of man it is still technically is banned.
With all these idiots shootin kids with airweapons we paintballers have to stand our ground and show the goverment it is not a dangerous sport by setting an example of having strict rules on velocities. ROF is dangerous but a hot marker is more dangerous in my opinion.
Interesting opinion...say I had a fully auto crossbow....would that be illegal as it is clearly more dangerous than a fully auto paintball marker.
Sorry a little off topic here but hey..am bored.
As for ramping in tournys, each to thier own. If your too lazy to practise firing fast/ dont really care about the skill needed and just wanna play paintball at a seriously fast rate. Then thats fair enough. To me semi auto is the only way as it brings another level to the game and another skill.
Paintball markers are not even classed as "dangerous airweapons". So why is fully auto/ramping not legal (on paper). If you had a toy dart gun that fired darts fully auto that is legal right?
Airsoft weapons can go fully auto because they are very very light projectiles but so are paintballs (relative to the speed). Most FULLY auto BB guns use electrics AEGs to fire rather than gas propelled so I guess the they cant be classed as an airweapon. If I remember you can fire a metal BB at 550FPS or there abouts aslong as its bolt action.
I aint 100% about why fully auto is illegal for paintballer markers.
Doesnt fully auto state :
With one trigger pull the marker will keep firing untill the the mag/hopper/clip is emptied.
If you fired 30 shots then it stoped that would just be a 30 shot burst unless you held the trigger down untill the mag was empty.
Real weapons like an MP5 are only used in semi, the police are only allowed to use thier weapons on semi. The goverment seems to think that semi auto weapons are safer...which I agree with. But a paintball marker is about as harmfull as a toy dart gun aslong as you got protection on.
It is illegal to own a fully auto firearm/airweapon in the UK but if you fire over 330fps your paintball marker technically "a dangerous airweapon" as it exceeds 12lb/ft*2.
Then you technically can convert a paintball marker to a "dangerous airweapon" and if it can go fully auto then that is illegal - very illegal. This is my presumption on why full auto paintball markers are illegal.
The XBall 3 shot then fully auto isnt actually fully auto as you arent emptying the entire hopper with one trigger pull. Technically its 4 trigger pulls so surely this can bypass the law.
The UKPSF say that anything over 1 shot per trigger pull is illegal ( think that needs updated) but would that mean bounce is illegal i the UK.. I mean come on....
These are just some of the arguments. This is the eternal argument. Just remember folks IN SCOTLAND PAINTBALL WAS BANNED after the dunblane massacre. In the Isle of man it is still technically is banned.
With all these idiots shootin kids with airweapons we paintballers have to stand our ground and show the goverment it is not a dangerous sport by setting an example of having strict rules on velocities. ROF is dangerous but a hot marker is more dangerous in my opinion.
Interesting opinion...say I had a fully auto crossbow....would that be illegal as it is clearly more dangerous than a fully auto paintball marker.
Sorry a little off topic here but hey..am bored.
As for ramping in tournys, each to thier own. If your too lazy to practise firing fast/ dont really care about the skill needed and just wanna play paintball at a seriously fast rate. Then thats fair enough. To me semi auto is the only way as it brings another level to the game and another skill.
You know what the real problem is?
The real problem is the vast majority of tournament players are whinign, bitching, cheating, egomaniac sons of bitches who suck, but are convinced they are good.
As soon as you realize that THAT is the customer, and that the only people who will pay for a league with rightly enforced rules have ALREADY STOPPED PLAYING, you'll see the problem. Any change to curb cheating is difficult to impossible, because 90% of the current customers do not want the change.
Even if you fix the trigger, they'll just move onto something else - they'll put more padding in their jersies, or start ramping velocity.
The only way this is going to change is if somebody who doesn't care about being the biggest league or thebest league starts a league with real rules that are enforced. They'll attract a SMALL number of people who are actually athletes intead of punks, and slowly, over time, that league will grow.
Or not, in which case the battle has already been lost.
Fixing the gun cheats is easy: REquire everyone who has spend $1000 on a marker to spend $30 on a board that you can verify is legal. That will stop electronic cheats, and it will stop trigger bounce because the board will have a circuit in it to eliminate the bounce.
There is absolutely no reason this can't happen except people don't want to force everyone to pony up $30 because the customers don't want it because the customers ARE THE CHEATERS.
It's a sad, sad world when a league will charge you $35 for a useless ID card but swear up and down that $35 for a board that will stop cheating is too much of a burden for players.
The real problem is the vast majority of tournament players are whinign, bitching, cheating, egomaniac sons of bitches who suck, but are convinced they are good.
As soon as you realize that THAT is the customer, and that the only people who will pay for a league with rightly enforced rules have ALREADY STOPPED PLAYING, you'll see the problem. Any change to curb cheating is difficult to impossible, because 90% of the current customers do not want the change.
Even if you fix the trigger, they'll just move onto something else - they'll put more padding in their jersies, or start ramping velocity.
The only way this is going to change is if somebody who doesn't care about being the biggest league or thebest league starts a league with real rules that are enforced. They'll attract a SMALL number of people who are actually athletes intead of punks, and slowly, over time, that league will grow.
Or not, in which case the battle has already been lost.
Fixing the gun cheats is easy: REquire everyone who has spend $1000 on a marker to spend $30 on a board that you can verify is legal. That will stop electronic cheats, and it will stop trigger bounce because the board will have a circuit in it to eliminate the bounce.
There is absolutely no reason this can't happen except people don't want to force everyone to pony up $30 because the customers don't want it because the customers ARE THE CHEATERS.
It's a sad, sad world when a league will charge you $35 for a useless ID card but swear up and down that $35 for a board that will stop cheating is too much of a burden for players.