1--I'm always riled up and today is a good day.
2--I will as soon as she stops talking back.
3--hurtful? Me? Never. Correct, well that's something else.
4--I find paedophilia repugnant.
PSP's new 15 BPS rule
- Thread starter Wadidiz
- Start date
2--I will as soon as she stops talking back.
3--hurtful? Me? Never. Correct, well that's something else.
4--I find paedophilia repugnant.
Looking at WAS's statement:
_____________________________
We know that ramping is unsafe.
No ****.
...more than 30,000 Equalizer boards being used by players, the number of players using our products in PSP, NPPL, XPSL, CFOA, and other sanctioned events is considerable.
If I understand what those boards are capable of that's kind of scary, or do I misunderstand?
We stated a concern that ramping is unsafe.
No ****.
(The alleged PSP quote: ) "they [players] can average at least 15 - 20 balls a second..."
Maybe that was referring to the cheaters in which case that wouldn't surprise me.
There simply is no way to enforce any type of rate of fire rule, or determine if the ramping rule is even being adhered to.
The first part is incorrect, I believe, but the second part is true.
If the PSP believes that by having markers all shooting at a 15 bps pace they can determine if one of them is shooting 20 bps in bursts, they are fooling themselves. It has already been proven on the field that the PACT timers can not be used during game play because they measure sound, and the background noise (of other markers) false triggers them. There simply is no way to enforce any type of rate of fire rule...
I could be wrong but I believe that technology exists to localize, directionalize and/or otherwise fine-tune the sensitivity of the microphone involved so as to only focus on a specific, closer area. I know that is being looked at right now by "top people".
No longer will a cheater have to be careful about their marker "going off". Nobody will even think twice about it.
Guns were "going off" literally under my nose all season long because they knew that, for the most part, we couldn't prove a thing. It was a friggin' joke.
....15.385613 bps, a far cry from "15 bps".
0.3856 of a ball within a second a "far cry"? Puh-leease! That was simply rounding things off so that the 65ms spacing could be used instead of a ridiculous fraction.
The ASTM standards for paintball clearly state that a paintball marker must fire in semi-auto mode, have a maximum rate of fire of 15 bps, and have a maximum velocity of 280 fps.
Everybody in the business knows that none of those three mandates have in fact been maintained. 280 bps?
Since nearly nobody legally exceeds 15 bps when shooting, a cap is not going to change the sport.
But there is sure-as-hell a lot more people than nobody doing it illegally and therein lies the problem. That's why NXL sounds clearly slower than the other leagues.
Some people will be angry at us for our stance, but we believe that ramping can cause permanent injury or death of a player, and it is simply irresponsible to allow this theory to be tested.
Aren't there a number of players who are abusing WAS products thus increasing the dangers mentioned here or am I wrong? Wouldn't it be much better if the boards and markers weren't so easily made into dangerous weapons so these risks wouldn't exist or do I misunderstand?
We believe that people who cheat should be banned from the sanctioning body's events indefinitely, and the team suspended for the year. If you want to take the chance, then do it. It wouldn't be long before the cheaters were gone or straightened up.
That might be a good idea if there were a way to catch ALL the cheaters including the sophisticated ones.
_____________________________________
I've made it clear on these threads that I am truly a layman when it comes to these in-depth technical aspects. Therefore there may be some things here I simply don't understand so please bear with me and don't flame me too much in those areas. New FACTS are certainly welcome to this discussion.
_____________________________
We know that ramping is unsafe.
No ****.
...more than 30,000 Equalizer boards being used by players, the number of players using our products in PSP, NPPL, XPSL, CFOA, and other sanctioned events is considerable.
If I understand what those boards are capable of that's kind of scary, or do I misunderstand?
We stated a concern that ramping is unsafe.
No ****.
(The alleged PSP quote: ) "they [players] can average at least 15 - 20 balls a second..."
Maybe that was referring to the cheaters in which case that wouldn't surprise me.
There simply is no way to enforce any type of rate of fire rule, or determine if the ramping rule is even being adhered to.
The first part is incorrect, I believe, but the second part is true.
If the PSP believes that by having markers all shooting at a 15 bps pace they can determine if one of them is shooting 20 bps in bursts, they are fooling themselves. It has already been proven on the field that the PACT timers can not be used during game play because they measure sound, and the background noise (of other markers) false triggers them. There simply is no way to enforce any type of rate of fire rule...
I could be wrong but I believe that technology exists to localize, directionalize and/or otherwise fine-tune the sensitivity of the microphone involved so as to only focus on a specific, closer area. I know that is being looked at right now by "top people".
No longer will a cheater have to be careful about their marker "going off". Nobody will even think twice about it.
Guns were "going off" literally under my nose all season long because they knew that, for the most part, we couldn't prove a thing. It was a friggin' joke.
....15.385613 bps, a far cry from "15 bps".
0.3856 of a ball within a second a "far cry"? Puh-leease! That was simply rounding things off so that the 65ms spacing could be used instead of a ridiculous fraction.
The ASTM standards for paintball clearly state that a paintball marker must fire in semi-auto mode, have a maximum rate of fire of 15 bps, and have a maximum velocity of 280 fps.
Everybody in the business knows that none of those three mandates have in fact been maintained. 280 bps?
Since nearly nobody legally exceeds 15 bps when shooting, a cap is not going to change the sport.
But there is sure-as-hell a lot more people than nobody doing it illegally and therein lies the problem. That's why NXL sounds clearly slower than the other leagues.
Some people will be angry at us for our stance, but we believe that ramping can cause permanent injury or death of a player, and it is simply irresponsible to allow this theory to be tested.
Aren't there a number of players who are abusing WAS products thus increasing the dangers mentioned here or am I wrong? Wouldn't it be much better if the boards and markers weren't so easily made into dangerous weapons so these risks wouldn't exist or do I misunderstand?
We believe that people who cheat should be banned from the sanctioning body's events indefinitely, and the team suspended for the year. If you want to take the chance, then do it. It wouldn't be long before the cheaters were gone or straightened up.
That might be a good idea if there were a way to catch ALL the cheaters including the sophisticated ones.
_____________________________________
I've made it clear on these threads that I am truly a layman when it comes to these in-depth technical aspects. Therefore there may be some things here I simply don't understand so please bear with me and don't flame me too much in those areas. New FACTS are certainly welcome to this discussion.
Nice debates…keep focus, guys 
It is NOT the “sport of paintball” that will be affected first and most by this “wild Billy the Kid” tendency of –Ball gun evolution…..
Mentioned before, as I remember.
Has anyone thought about the risk of even "true semi" and not just the "servo semi", are going to get banned?
How do you want the “REAL” governing law to be able to tell a “true semi" from the “servo semi”, if the “Experts” has such a difficulty in setting/making the “gun/marker law”?
The evolution in the electronic/computer industry has resulted in electronic guns, and especially paintball e-markers have a shooting capability, which has surpassed the “law”.
So the law will have to be changed, if the “success” of paintball continues to grow. Sooner than later, if the BPS keeps raising in one semi way or the other..lol
After all, the "weapon law" is for the "safety" of the people/public, and not because of some "silly" sport, where the participants want to shoot at each other... With even more paint balls per second,… what ever way you measure it
One way or the other...if the “paintball sport” doesn’t set a BPS limit. I am sure the "LAW" will force some limitation through, within the next couple of years.
I also think that if members of many European governments, saw +15 years old kids where actually shooting paintball guns at those ROF, we are shooting,…. and at the FPS. They would be very concerned. Maybe even in the USA
Remember most people still “see” paintball as we played it in the early 90ths…
Don’t give me the “yes, but we have been playing with fast shooting guns for “ages”...
It is first in the last year or so, where the “WOW effect” has gone to the “retail level” of paintball.
Paintball evolving rapidly….
Now we have very cheap +15bps guns (less 500.- usd) and capable of shooting "paint/rubber balls" with “a little help from magnets/infra red sensor/software adjusted (for keeping the pace)” electronic triggers, easy….And can be adjusted to do it by itself (bouncing), by setting the set screws “illegal for (some) Tournaments”….
I am sure that a lot of people (inside the industry too) are seeing the danger in this progress…and believe that if you don’t enforce some kind of limit and/or other safety regulations soon. We may risk that paintball games/sport to be “moved” to mechanical markers, if not banned completely. Like it or not?
So instead of “HAHAAAH” at each other, every time some new remark from an “involved”, comes up. I think we/you should focus on the matter, instead of sounding like an old marriage…“you always do…” Though it is funny sometimes
If this side of the matter has been mentioned somewhere else in here, please excuuuse me
It is NOT the “sport of paintball” that will be affected first and most by this “wild Billy the Kid” tendency of –Ball gun evolution…..
Mentioned before, as I remember.
Has anyone thought about the risk of even "true semi" and not just the "servo semi", are going to get banned?
How do you want the “REAL” governing law to be able to tell a “true semi" from the “servo semi”, if the “Experts” has such a difficulty in setting/making the “gun/marker law”?
The evolution in the electronic/computer industry has resulted in electronic guns, and especially paintball e-markers have a shooting capability, which has surpassed the “law”.
So the law will have to be changed, if the “success” of paintball continues to grow. Sooner than later, if the BPS keeps raising in one semi way or the other..lol
After all, the "weapon law" is for the "safety" of the people/public, and not because of some "silly" sport, where the participants want to shoot at each other... With even more paint balls per second,… what ever way you measure it
One way or the other...if the “paintball sport” doesn’t set a BPS limit. I am sure the "LAW" will force some limitation through, within the next couple of years.
I also think that if members of many European governments, saw +15 years old kids where actually shooting paintball guns at those ROF, we are shooting,…. and at the FPS. They would be very concerned. Maybe even in the USA
Remember most people still “see” paintball as we played it in the early 90ths…
Don’t give me the “yes, but we have been playing with fast shooting guns for “ages”...
It is first in the last year or so, where the “WOW effect” has gone to the “retail level” of paintball.
Paintball evolving rapidly….
Now we have very cheap +15bps guns (less 500.- usd) and capable of shooting "paint/rubber balls" with “a little help from magnets/infra red sensor/software adjusted (for keeping the pace)” electronic triggers, easy….And can be adjusted to do it by itself (bouncing), by setting the set screws “illegal for (some) Tournaments”….
I am sure that a lot of people (inside the industry too) are seeing the danger in this progress…and believe that if you don’t enforce some kind of limit and/or other safety regulations soon. We may risk that paintball games/sport to be “moved” to mechanical markers, if not banned completely. Like it or not?
So instead of “HAHAAAH” at each other, every time some new remark from an “involved”, comes up. I think we/you should focus on the matter, instead of sounding like an old marriage…“you always do…” Though it is funny sometimes
If this side of the matter has been mentioned somewhere else in here, please excuuuse me
I'm not going to go back and read everything that's been posted on this subject...but...
Ramping IS ridiculously unsafe.
I am in total agreement with the "press release-type post" made by, well, I guess it's by the manufacturers of the WAS board.
There ARE ways to catch those individuals and teams who are using boards that are illegally adding shots, and the solution(s) are actually very simple...they just require a bit of tough love on the part of the series organizer(s), a little bit of testosterone to implement and stick to, and a little bit of time to pursue. But it's not a difficult problem to solve. It's just a matter of laying down the rules and penalties, giving everyone fair warning, then enforcing them and sticking to it.
I absolutely disagree with what's becoming the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" mentality.
If you want to cap semi-auto, fine. But don't throw semi-auto to the wind in favor of a cap.
~J~
Ramping IS ridiculously unsafe.
I am in total agreement with the "press release-type post" made by, well, I guess it's by the manufacturers of the WAS board.
There ARE ways to catch those individuals and teams who are using boards that are illegally adding shots, and the solution(s) are actually very simple...they just require a bit of tough love on the part of the series organizer(s), a little bit of testosterone to implement and stick to, and a little bit of time to pursue. But it's not a difficult problem to solve. It's just a matter of laying down the rules and penalties, giving everyone fair warning, then enforcing them and sticking to it.
I absolutely disagree with what's becoming the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" mentality.
If you want to cap semi-auto, fine. But don't throw semi-auto to the wind in favor of a cap.
~J~
Steve
First you bite my head off for thinking Toulouse was a debacle (which agreed after the event last year).... you seem to take it personally, which you shouldn't - you were just rightly enforcing flawed rules with refs that were poorly trained to do it?
Now you lay into Justin ?
You've got some fairly knowledgable people taking part in this debate... how about taking a positive outlook on things?
Nick
Are you getting stressed from this debate ?
First you bite my head off for thinking Toulouse was a debacle (which agreed after the event last year).... you seem to take it personally, which you shouldn't - you were just rightly enforcing flawed rules with refs that were poorly trained to do it?
Now you lay into Justin ?
You've got some fairly knowledgable people taking part in this debate... how about taking a positive outlook on things?
Nick
Re:
Secondly as to your post. Bull****.
Please point out these easy ways to catch the cheats and how easy it is to solve this problem.
It's like you stepped into the thread and said "I can make fission in a test tube, but I won't tell you how".
I'd like to hear how to catch the cheats, and how easy it is to solve this problem.
Firstly welcome back Justin.
Secondly as to your post. Bull****.
Please point out these easy ways to catch the cheats and how easy it is to solve this problem.
It's like you stepped into the thread and said "I can make fission in a test tube, but I won't tell you how".
I'd like to hear how to catch the cheats, and how easy it is to solve this problem.
Honestly? It doesn't make one bit of difference if the event is insured or not. If you get shot in the eye, you're not going to see a dime either way, anymore than if a football player gets hit neck broken in a football game, or someone in the stands gets a basball in the head. Known risks of participation are assumed by the participant.
Insurance protects the promoter, and more importantly in most cases, the facility. Facilities demand insurance because anybody can sue anyone, so when someone TRIES to get money, the insurance is on the line for the legal fees instead of the host facility.
But in regards to the issue at hand, PSP has insurance. If they didn't have insurance, the fairgrouns/disney/etc wouldn't let them on their property.
Re:
The only way to stop cheating is to have certified, verifiable software on the boards. While that's technically quite feasible, WDP has patents on board communication. Seems like a long-shot to get PSP to sign onto a method of enforcement its owners can't legally use.
It's just another case of the unwillingness of the industry to COOPERATE on issues that would bring an industry-wide benefit due to petty bull****.
Or, we could also just ban electronic markers entirely.
There is no way to enforce a semi-auto rule with the current equipment. People just program their cheater boards to return to a legal mode if the trigger is held for half a second. A savvy cheater will never let you have a marker in an illegal mode.
The only way to stop cheating is to have certified, verifiable software on the boards. While that's technically quite feasible, WDP has patents on board communication. Seems like a long-shot to get PSP to sign onto a method of enforcement its owners can't legally use.
It's just another case of the unwillingness of the industry to COOPERATE on issues that would bring an industry-wide benefit due to petty bull****.
Or, we could also just ban electronic markers entirely.