Paintball and politics plus conspiracy theories...

[Baca Loco]

Pie in the Sky

Money, influence, power and paintball. The problems you'all are having is confusion over these factors overlapping. Right now you can ignore the players--everyone else does. Whatever you think is being done for the players it ain't. It's being done for the bottom line and the players occasionally benefit. After all, in the current arrangement players are primarily customers, not commodities and until players are commodities they won't make much of anything out of their participation--other than the pleasure of playing the game.
At this moment in time what matters is control and cash and cash only matters if it can buy some leverage and gain some control. Most (but not all) of the current conflicts revolve around different visions of where the money will come from in the future and how to get at it.
The present tournament system and game format is fine for the present playership as customers but has obvious limitations to some of the money players. Number of events one can reasonably put on and number of teams one can accomodate in a finite period of time--a weekend. And the current product seems to have minimal appeal to non-paintballers as well as only happening a few times a year. Not a recipe for development into a major sport or minor sport.
I have previously expressed the opinion and remain convinced that what the forward thinkers with some measure of control are aiming at is a separate, actual Pro League. What such a league will require is agreement of the principle team owners, a game format that is spectator friendly and suitable for Saturday afternoon matches and sufficient general public interest to attract financial support.
There's clearly alot more to all this but I actually have work to do. Oh well.

Teej--nobody looking to limit paintball's growth. It's just that various of the power players have different and sometime conflicting interests and it's hard to judge why some of the stuff that happens happens unless you know who is after what. Whoa?! That was thoroughly confusing.

As to international governing body etc. it isn't necessary--not for those with the control--in fact, NPPL-style it has proved to be an impediment.

 

[TJ Lambini]

I said it was popular

Not that I subscribe to it...tho I do know that Elvis is head ref at tha Cup this year.

Watch Chuck after FLA for pointers...thass all I'm saying.

peace

 

[Hotpoint]

Pie in the Sky

Originally posted by Baca Loco


As to international governing body etc. it isn't necessary--not for those with the control--in fact, NPPL-style it has proved to be an impediment.

The necessity or not of an international governing body depends on where you want the game to go. If you have dreams of Olympic Glory, or even just regular televising of events on ESPN or Sky, then we do need to run ourselves like a proper Sport which means the trappings and bureaucracy of a proper organisation (FIFA is a much better model than the NPPL BTW).

To repeat myself. Paintball should be run for the benefit of the Sport not just the Industry or the Players.

Idealistic yes, but certainly possible

 

[rancid]

Pie in the Sky

Hey Baca, although I can't quote you, the impression I've got is that you feel this is summat the player should struggle against?

Originally posted by Baca Loco
I have previously expressed the opinion and remain convinced that what the forward thinkers with some measure of control are aiming at is a separate, actual Pro League. What such a league will require is agreement of the principle team owners, a game format that is spectator friendly and suitable for Saturday afternoon matches and sufficient general public interest to attract financial support.

Undoubtedly. But, for what it matters, I can't get my head round paintball ever becoming of any interest to anyone other than painballers or would-be paintballers, for all the reasons that have been well documented... difficulty to film, no single point of focus etc. To my mind things aint changed very much in 20 years, and the old git in me says it wont develop that much further. (I'd love to be proven wrong... perhaps I've developed 'hearditallbeforeitis'?)

 

[Baca Loco]

Re: Pie in the Sky

Originally posted by rancid
Hey Baca, although I can't quote you, the impression I've got is that you feel this is summat the player should struggle against?

Undoubtedly. But, for what it matters, I can't get my head round paintball ever becoming of any interest to anyone other than painballers or would-be paintballers, for all the reasons that have been well documented... difficulty to film, no single point of focus etc. To my mind things aint changed very much in 20 years, and the old git in me says it wont develop that much further. (I'd love to be proven wrong... perhaps I've developed 'hearditallbeforeitis'?)

You is correct, sah. I have in the past approached it that way simply because I thought (and still think) most of the players are clueless when it comes to what's becoming of the game or haven't thought through the ramifications as I do think the end result will change the game in ways present players may not like much.
Personally it's all good. I'm too old to worry about gettin' to the top of the heap and it can't happen fast enough if the next generation is going to be able to take advantage before he's past his prime--tho he's young yet.

As to the ultimate prospects there are certainly a variety of "problems" to overcome and maybe they won't or can't be but there are people who will keep trying.

Any competitive activity generates a level of intensity that is attractive by its nature--good God, look at all the people who actually find soccer entertaining!--and paintball is no different. What paintball requires is an educated audience that can understand what and why players are doing what they're doing on the field. (And that's part of the reason a lot of the 'big players' are actively pursuing various means of mainstreaming the sport.)

Maestro, I hear that. But only Lamont Cranston knows for sure.

Hotpoint--the structural underpinnings have a certain utility I will grant you but a significant measure of the backroom brawling going on relates directly to how that structural underpinning affects those with power now and how it will potentially affect what they want to do in the future.
The "sport" is not some nebulous entity existing on its own, but what all those who participate in it in any fashion make of it which is why I periodically toss in my harangues on this and related subjects. For the time being the issues aren't settled so while opportunity to debate remains an option anyone who cares should make their voice heard.

 

[Tyger]

I said it was popular

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
Not that I subscribe to it...tho I do know that Elvis is head ref at tha Cup this year.

I played with Elvis last weekend.

He lives in Wisconsin, plays with a 'mag on CO2, and plays without a mask old school style.

He's also been known to play in a black sequened jumpsuit with a cape.

The best part is I'm not kidding. I'll go find the pics.

-Tyger

 

[rancid]

Re: Re: Pie in the Sky

Alright matey,

I'm not quite following you:-

Change the way the game's played and players may not like it?
An audience that needs educating?

Added together, both of the above = abyss, surely.

Yep, understand about the dablings in format, standardisation etc. but I fail to appreciate the Orwellian trip. Cripes, I'm being dragged in (must resist... must resist).

Aren't we just talking about 'business' here? Is this no bigger a deal than Heinz and their ever-growing bean hill?

I think I'll stick to my earlier point... limit them at your peril. Up the rich.

Tyger, you hypocrite... I've read your posts in the dope thread!

 

[Dannefaerd]

Why not?

I don't think that we need to have any major international body that is controlling things straight away (but ask anyone in NZ and they will tell you that World Domination is my end goal )

What needs to happen now is baby steps.

Let's say that country organisations (like the UKPSF, NZPPA, APPL, etc) form an agreement to create the International Paintball Sports Association (IPSA).

> We agree to adopt a standard set of tournament rules for use within events that each country sanctions (I suggest Millennium Rules)
> We agree to adopt a standard format for the major tournaments (I suggest 7 player aside) - but with recognition that there are other formats as well (3 & 5 man)
> We start discussing a standard of how to assess player classification, and then put proposals to major tournament series.

End goal? International Standards.

Other things we can do? Well the sky is the limit, but anything outside of the above is probably going to take some cash, so that will take time.

Believe the Dream !!


Martin

 

[Baca Loco]

Ahoy

Originally posted by rancid
Alright matey,

I'm not quite following you:-

Change the way the game's played and players may not like it?
An audience that needs educating?

Added together, both of the above = abyss, surely.

Yep, understand about the dablings in format, standardisation etc. but I fail to appreciate the Orwellian trip. Cripes, I'm being dragged in (must resist... must resist).

Aren't we just talking about 'business' here? Is this no bigger a deal than Heinz and their ever-growing bean hill?

Easy bit first--educated audience. Every sporting audience has to be educated in the nuances of the game, it's rules, etc. to one degree or another. It's just that in most cases, most games you grew up learning that stuff as a kid. New game, new stuff to learn and not really a big deal. Look at skating (skateboarding)--10 years ago who knew the tricks or the lingo? Now everybody under twenty knows what's what. Same thing with paintball.
Changes to game. Here's a basic one--no more tournies where you play the "pros" cause they are, literally, in a league O' their own. That alone is more or less the foundation of the NPPL's appeal and probably the Mil Series. Take that away, play at pro level a significantly different variation of the game and all the big tournies of today lose a lot of prestige and status. So now why are the Ams and Novs playing?
As to business--Ay Caramba--there's business and then there's business. It's like the difference between owning the Dallas Cowboys and being CEO of Spalding. They're after different things.
As the Borg say (not Bjorn) "Resistance is futile."

 

[Rich S]

from a student point of view (in britain) we need to get a international body. the British universities sports association (BUSA) do not recognise us a something that people play. when i asked for some support (not financially) in organising the inter-uni tourney they said that because we were not a sport and because only 10 unis vested interest they could not help. many unis will not set up teams if there is not a university competition to play in. university X will not have a team because it can not play in BUSA, BUSA will not organise a tournament because there is not enough university interest. if there was an internation body to assist with the UKPSF (bully gave me lots of support when i was organising) to help create such tournaments then we would be in such a better situation.
also the way that the millennium rules are run is probably the way to go for a fully international organisation, as the nppl rules is only in one country (US) while mill rules are used over europe.