Nxl 2005

[Nick Brockdorff]

Now that we are already confused.....

.....about the topic of discussion, let me throw out another thought (yes, it's 6 AM and I just got home, so it may not be completely coherent ):

It puzzles me greatly, that so many players believe in the future of paintball on tv, and at the same time backs 7-man as the format to go with.

I think a lot of them have missed an important element in their thought process, in reaching that conclusion.

If X-Ball becomes the format to hit it big on tv, it will be all about the teams.

The franchises of today, will become household names, and gradually build greater and greater brand strength, to a point where each frachise will make a great deal of money off the brand itself, through sponsorships, endorsements, merchandise, etc..... Not least because the format guarantees a longevity to the coverage a team gets, and because the league structure will allow for precise planning of coverage many months in advance.

If 7-man becomes the format to hit it big on tv, it will be all about the events/promoters, due to the nature of the format (short games, no knowledge before events about who makes it to the finals, etc.).

The teams that get on tv in a 7-man format, will probably not be able to guarantee sponsors any coverage up front, and even if they can through some agreement with the promoter (irrespective of their results), they will be unable to say how much.

Broadcasts will brand the events, rather than the teams, and coverage of the individual team will be sporadic and fairly coincidential.... For 7-man to be succesfull on tv, it will HAVE to be as a kind of "festival" broadcast.

What that means, is that for the professional players, X-Ball would put them in a lot stronger position, compared to 7-man, in the long term.

Add to that, that most players that have tried both formats, actually prefer playing X-Ball..... and I start to think that "we the players" have sold out our own best interests, for some free fruit and energy drink.

Obviously, I am aware that the player base does not have a real say in paintball in this day and age, because we are not organised in any way...... but hey.... this is just another example then, of how "we the players" could control our sport, if we bothered to get organised.

But who am I to talk.... I was an idiot apparently, to think X-Ball was the right choice for my team

Nick

 

[Buddha 3]

Originally posted by Baca Loco
Utter rubbish. Most of the cameras are stationary and hit the big corners and the straightaways. Helicopter shot or two but overhead views of racing cars is problematic--no real sense of speed. I'll agree a good director does his best to keep something vaguely interesting on the screen but the nature of the sport means huge chunks of time are simply cars zipping by the cameras.
Where we differ, I think, is that you seem to be saying that PB can't succeed on TV because it can't be presented in a way that attracts enough interest and I am suggesting that 1) I think it can be presented successfully and my argument for can be found in a mag other than PGI since our noble and esteemed editor decided enough with the XBall already (broke my heart, it did), and 2) there is fast becoming a sufficiently large group of participants, friends, families, etc. who will bring an interest with them to viewing PB on TV. Enough, in time, given the present TV landscape to make it viable in one or more forms.

I also think, as I mentioned earlier, as more money fills the PB pot TV becomes the natural outlet for growing that pot. Look at the Spike TV experiment. It exists, in essence, to reach more marginal particpants and attract new ones while associating PB generally with the shows sponsor. TV didn't choose to throw money at them cus PB was such a wonderful sport it couldn't miss--they chose to throw money at TV in order to make more money down the road. TV is in PB's future. How that will flesh out is open to debate.




PS--Glenn. thread. Split.

Paul, you're a ninconpoop.

Read back to what I posted. I said that F1 directors TRY to keep the interesting stuff on the tube. Obviously that'll be limited by their resources, and obviously that'll mean some shots of just random cars zipping by. However, from your post I gather you don't watch it that much (I can't escape seeing it at times, because of certain family members), watch it more and you will notice that they do a good job of keeping certain cars in the pic.

And when you read my posts again, you might also notice that I did not say that paintball CAN'T succeed on tv. I'm saying that it can be improved as far as viewability is concerned (I agree with Nick here), and I'm saying that I have my doubts it'll be as great and glorious as many people seem to think it'll be. That is all. Never said it is impossible to make a tv worthy show, just that it is REAL HARD.

As much as you like debating (and I do too), I think you'll find my point of view is not as extreme as you make it out to be. I just have my reservations towards the "hooray" attitude.

 

[Buddha 3]

Originally posted by Manning26
Guys, if this game's so friggin' boring to watch then why are the stands always so jam-packed on Sundays? Why can't I ever get a good look at X-Ball Div I games (oh yeah, I'm short and there aren't any bleachers)? Yeah, 99.9% of the people watching through the nets are players, but they're there because it's interesting, if it wasn't they wouldn't bother leaving their beds and driving out to the field!

You answered your own question...
They're players, so they have a more than avarage interest in the game. Plus they were there for the event, so they more than likely have no return flights or whatever until AFTER the event finished.

Might as well watch and learn while you're still there. If it was such a ravishingly interesting thing to watch, the stands would be full on the other days too.

 

[Baca Loco]

Originally posted by Buddha 3
Paul, you're a ninconpoop.

Read back to what I posted. I said that F1 directors TRY to keep the interesting stuff on the tube. Obviously that'll be limited by their resources, and obviously that'll mean some shots of just random cars zipping by. However, from your post I gather you don't watch it that much (I can't escape seeing it at times, because of certain family members), watch it more and you will notice that they do a good job of keeping certain cars in the pic.

And when you read my posts again, you might also notice that I did not say that paintball CAN'T succeed on tv. I'm saying that it can be improved as far as viewability is concerned (I agree with Nick here), and I'm saying that I have my doubts it'll be as great and glorious as many people seem to think it'll be. That is all. Never said it is impossible to make a tv worthy show, just that it is REAL HARD.

As much as you like debating (and I do too), I think you'll find my point of view is not as extreme as you make it out to be. I just have my reservations towards the "hooray" attitude.

Perhaps it was the relentless pessimism throughout your posts--and in similar threads in the past--that misled me.

Now, about F1. And just what exciting things do those "certain" cars do most of the time? Absolutely zip. But don't get me wrong--I'm not dissing F1--just trying to point out that lots of people both understand and enjoy what's going despite any and all weaknesses in the TV presentation. No reason to imagine the same couldn't apply to other than F1.

PS--that should have been nincompoop.

 

[Ty C.]

I have read many of the posts here and do believe that for the sport to have outside investors/sponsers it has to be on tv. How we get it to TV and how its produced I beleive will make the difference. The example of F1 Racing keeps being brought up but lets look at a different example like poker. Poker has become one of the most televised sports/ games/ hobbies, whatever you consider it (in the United States). Now poker is really not that fun to watch but the character development and the build up of suspense makes it interesting. I see no reason why Paintball can not get enough viewers (if presented properly) to allow for more televising.

I also think the more paintball video games that come out like GHTP or at least more people playing them will generate interest faster. With video games you might have kids that are either not able or not old enough to play paintball that love the game and want to watch it on tv. It also allows paintball to be viewed in a competly different way. I remeber in the early 90s when skateboarding video games came out for nintendo and it seems like soon after that it was on tv a lot more and huge sponsers got involved.

Either way it will take time but I think paintball will be on tv more and outside sponsers will contribute but it might take a year or two. I dont think its to far off though.

 

[Beaker]

One thing that the el-stumpy might have been trying to get at is that there might be actually a lot more ballers than people think, and sufficient enough in fact to support a good quality of pball coverage.

Also, it's all about momentum, if you can get a million ballers (big figures for a big guy) to watch something, it will be higher up in the ratings, it will get more ads and trailers and generally attract more viewers.

Make it look like the Xgames - replace wipe out with getting your face blown off and it WILL be a winner with the skate/surf/bmx brigade, it is just too close demographically to not work.

Plus, it's advertisers that will kill a sport on TV - not actually simply numbers of viewers. If you get through to them the numbers involved, footfall at events etc with the demographic we have - that you have to be (relatively) rich to play as it's no free sport etc etc then advertisers will come on. You just have to package it right, they know Xgames, Extreme channel, snowboard, skate etc etc, they can relate to that, package it up like that and woohoo you have yourself a winner.

 

[Manning26]

Originally posted by Buddha 3
You answered your own question...
They're players, so they have a more than avarage interest in the game. Plus they were there for the event, so they more than likely have no return flights or whatever until AFTER the event finished.

Whew, didn't see that comin'!

My point there was more that there's plenty of other stuff the players could be doing on their Sundays off, or even in the middle of the week (X-Ball). I'll tell ya' I wasn't fighting any crowds to catch a game at the IAO, and that was wall-to-wall paintballers. The boys and girls aren't just hanging out 'round the nets 'cause there's nothing better to do, they're there because it IS entertaining.

Again, how many people watch the NFL who don't play in said league? How many people watch who have never even played an organized game of football (99.9% of the females I think would be safe to say)?

Originally posted by Buddha 3
Might as well watch and learn while you're still there. If it was such a ravishingly interesting thing to watch, the stands would be full on the other days too.

Marketing, Honkey. When people see this crap on tv they'll come in droves

Actually, in the 'States, Saturdays get pretty busy with the locals coming out to see what's up (you know, the weekend, no school, no work). Yeah, it's Paintball kids who aren't playing the event, but IT'S KIDS COMING OUT TO WATCH!

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

Manning

My point there was more that there's plenty of other stuff the players could be doing on their Sundays off, or even in the middle of the week (X-Ball).

Actually (my turn to play the Devils Advocate ) - I think that is a bad example.

I think at the major events, a good portion of the spectators are there for educational purposes..... they want to see the best play the fields they themselves have played, and see where they went wrong and where they need to improve.

But - that having been said, I still stand fully behind my arguments on why paintball CAN be made a success on tv.

Nick

 

[Manning26]

I can see that, but as I said, there's a noticable difference in foot traffic and seating starting Saturdays (still prelims, mind you). Those kids walking around with their parents could most definitely have the intention of picking up some tricks from the elite, but they're there, and that's what matters- yes?

 

[Buddha 3]

Manning, read your own posts again, and realise that nothing you have said is a point that disproves what I have posted...

As you yourself admit, they ALL ARE paintballers, and therefore are a lousy example (as Nick pointed out). For the simple reason that they are ballers, they prove nothing.

And you bringing up the NFL is totally countering your own point: Those people are there even though they are not in the league. That's not the case with 90% of the people that show up at a paintball event...