NPPL Super Seven Series

[Robbo]

Ok

Originally posted by Bigdog
now that we have heard from the prosthetic hip brigade....
I think that the move to pro refs is the best way, but, they are going to be pretty well hated if they do their job right,

I think they are hated even more when they don't do their job right............
Robbo

 

[Bigdog]

Aaaahhh....

But in the first case its a loathing to be proud of.

If you're a pro ref you want to have the rep of "don't feck around on his field or you're toast"

Much better than trying to justify underperformance with "its not my fault it was just me & bubba reffing a 10 man game" when they are good I for one would be glad to hate them a bit, cause as difficult as they'll make life for us, imagine what the'll be doing to MR BIGHEAD PLAYSONALOT (sub that name with your least favorite pro)

The game started out a one of honour, then it went south, now get the refs with big sticks to poke it back onto the narrow (if not entirely straight) path.

 

[sjt19]

I think that the majority of 'ballers just want the rules to be enforced consistently. I would not think that people would hate judges for doing their jobs, after all, look at the response that Banzai got for reffing the Angel field, nothing but praise, whereas Dynasty were slated for a sub standard reffing performance in Amsterdam. Consistency is the key issue and pro refs reffing every event is the solution to this.

sam

oh yeah....p.s.......i was flicking through an issue of PGI from 1991 and saw a pic of Robbo, not unusual you may think.....but he had hair!!!!!i couldnt work out who it was!!!!Was a very flattering pic!!!

 

[Baca Loco]

Re: 3 strikes your out...

Originally posted by Wadidiz
Even if the refs are well-trained, well-motivated, competent and consistent, it is virtually impossible to catch the playing-on even most of the time. It just happens too quickly.
Steve

I don't think so at least in the instances of significant game-changing playing on. I think the missing factor is coordination and communication between refs. There is no reason a well-trained ref squad working together can't have systematic simple codes they use to help make certain calls quickly--as they happen. And in my experience most game breaking playing on occurs because refs are out of position or one ref is alone in a critical zone trying to cover players on both sides.
Just a thought.

Nor am I a big fan of 3 strikes concept--unless it's limited to 3 strikes in a particular event that player is suspended for duration of event.

 

[Wadidiz]

Aaaahhh....

Originally posted by Bigdog
But in the first case its a loathing to be proud of.

Then I should be proud of being called a "f...in' Nazi" like I was called at the last Millennium I judged, right?

Concerning your remark about our non-functional pelvic bones: although Robbo wouldn't really know about my playing ability, for my part the "Prosthetic Hip Brigade" would like to challenge you and anyone else you can get to go along to a best-of-five match. Let's put, say, 100 quid on the table. That is if Robbo agrees. I'm guessing Robbo is still under 50. I'm over 50, so I reckon we'd be pushovers. Or?

Steve

 

[Bigdog]

cool

So call it an even hundred years of experience on your side.

So that means i have to find three teamates to make up the years??

Of course, you should be proud, if it was a legit call, then don't back down, thats exactly what I'm talking about. Make the calls & stick with it.

If that makes a nazi, then get the swastika for the new refs badge.
Nice that because you didn't agree with them it automatically makes you a facist *******, but them doing whatever they want on the field is ok, screw that!

 

[Wadidiz]

Re: Re: 3 strikes your out...

Originally posted by Baca Loco
I don't think so at least in the instances of significant game-changing playing on. I think the missing factor is coordination and communication between refs. There is no reason a well-trained ref squad working together can't have systematic simple codes they use to help make certain calls quickly--as they happen. And in my experience most game breaking playing on occurs because refs are out of position or one ref is alone in a critical zone trying to cover players on both sides.
Just a thought.

Nor am I a big fan of 3 strikes concept--unless it's limited to 3 strikes in a particular event that player is suspended for duration of event.

Your principles are good, Baca, but it just doesn't work out that way in reality with the quantity of refs that are on-field now. With tight fields the muggings could come from an almost infinite number of directions. We also have to be careful about too much pre-positioning. We don't want to tell a player he's about to get done.

But better training and communication will mean catching more play-ons.

The 3-strikes-you're-out I have been suggesting is for repeat violation of any rule during a single tournament. Hell, I'll just paste it in again:
_____________________________________
4. Institute a 3-strikes-you're-out rule: if any player gets caught and penalized for the same violation (playing on, for example) 3 times during the same tournament, that player shall be pulled from the tournament and the team shall play with 1 player less.

5. If a player is pulled from 2 tournaments during a season then the player shall be automatically suspended from NPPL and Millennium for the remainder of the season or the next 2 tournaments, whichever is most.
____________________________________

I'll stick with my guns. I think this is way to get a handle on it.

Steve

 

[Mark/Static]

Re: Re: 3 strikes your out...

Originally posted by Baca Loco
I don't think so at least in the instances of significant game-changing playing on. I think the missing factor is coordination and communication between refs. There is no reason a well-trained ref squad working together can't have systematic simple codes they use to help make certain calls quickly--as they happen. And in my experience most game breaking playing on occurs because refs are out of position or one ref is alone in a critical zone trying to cover players on both sides.
Just a thought.

Nor am I a big fan of 3 strikes concept--unless it's limited to 3 strikes in a particular event that player is suspended for duration of event.

I tend to agree with you there. We've seen so few examples of a good reffing crews that most do not expect one to be able to make most calls for playing on. Like in the NFL, a reffing crew stays together for a year, and is able to function like a team.
The thing I deplore the most at an event is seeing ref's laying down. One of 4 refs, watching one of 20 players? That's ridiculous. Get up you lazy biotch! Move around keep your head on a swivel. If a player takes heat on his or her opposite side from you, quickly run around to see. If you think he or she might be hit, get in there and check, make the f-ing call or get the hell out of the way! Keep the game flowing!
A 60 year old geezer can see a wide-receiver fly out of bounds as he catches the ball, and more times than not, can determine if he had possession with his feet in bounds. But a 20 year old can't determine who shot who first? The players work hard on the field, the refs owe the players the same courtesy.
Sorry, but it's irksome to me.

 

[Baca Loco]

3 strikes your out...

Originally posted by Wadidiz
1--Your principles are good, Baca, but it just doesn't work out that way in reality with the quantity of refs that are on-field now. 2--With tight fields the muggings could come from an almost infinite number of directions. We also have to be careful about too much pre-positioning. We don't want to tell a player he's about to get done.

But better training and communication will mean catching more play-ons.

3--The 3-strikes-you're-out I have been suggesting is for repeat violation of any rule during a single tournament. Hell, I'll just paste it in again:
_____________________________________
4. Institute a 3-strikes-you're-out rule: if any player gets caught and penalized for the same violation (playing on, for example) 3 times during the same tournament, that player shall be pulled from the tournament and the team shall play with 1 player less.

5. If a player is pulled from 2 tournaments during a season then the player shall be automatically suspended from NPPL and Millennium for the remainder of the season or the next 2 tournaments, whichever is most.
____________________________________

I'll stick with my guns. I think this is way to get a handle on it.

Steve

1--now wasn't what we were talking about was it? 2 or 4 of the world's most gifted refs ain't gonna be able to control a 10-man game regardless but anybody who understands the game can walk a field and have some pretty clear indicators where the "problem" areas are gonna be and during the play of the game that is refined by where players are positioned.
2--so they could but only to a limited number of opposition players. I don't care if 10 guys could make the move if they're only gonna end up in 3 places it ain't that hard. Additionally, refs will, when there is a standardized number always on the field, have overlapping zones of responsibility. I guess in this discussion I'm more a of a nuts and bolts kinda guy as it's one thing, an essential thing, to have a clear, concise well ordered rules structure and another to devise exactly how one goes about training refs to be competent to effectively implement the rules--and nobody has really dealt with that issue yet.
3--as you've written it I've no problem with 3 strikes rule but I wouldn't apply it to X-Ball

 

[Baca Loco]

3 strikes your out...

Originally posted by Mark/Static
1--But a 20 year old can't determine who shot who first?

2--The players work hard on the field, the refs owe the players the same courtesy. Sorry, but it's irksome to me.

1--not if he can only see one at a time which is why we have usually ended up with simo's in those situations regardless. One ref who is close is watching one player, usually the defender--God knows why--and waits to see him hit, then checks attacker to see if he's hit too. Then they're both gone. No other refs are usually willing to offer any assistance as they were further away, don't want to get into a big argument, and tend to defer to the present ref as there have never been any provisions made for how to handle such situations in an organized, coordinated manner. ultimately HOW refs are trained will be as important as the rules they, and we, operate under.
2--I hear that.