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NPPL Super Seven Series

Robbo

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Jul 5, 2001
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Re: Re: cool

Originally posted by Bigdog
IF you win it would be more like "See he really doesn't need that zimmer frame & guide dog after all", but when you lose it'll be "Shame on that youngster for beating a poor OAP like that" :D
Hey Pete - what was it like in London before cars?
just kidding, man I can't wait till I know that much about that many years of stuff :p
Is there any new news on the X-ball front?
Oh my, what a pleasent little post, riddled with all the niceties of underachievement, I'll tell what ya I can tell ya, I'll tell ya what it's like to win things and I mean big things......
Because my little canine friend, whilst you may be able to emulate my years, will you be able to emulate the achievements ?

As for the X-ball ?
It really all depends upon a meeting in early December where the PSP will be faced with a crossroads, shall we say.
Common sense should prevail but 'should' and 'do' are two very distinct and sometimes different possibilities.
But I tell you this much, our fate is in the hands of somebody I trust to make the right decisoin and whatever the PSP decide to do, I can tell you this much and it may seem a bit vague but it will be good for Europe.
I can't really say much more or explain any more but both eventualities give rise to increased benefits for the Millennium and its associated teams.

Robbo
 

Wadidiz

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Re: Re: Re: Re: 3 strikes your out...

Originally posted by Mark/Static
Ahh! The old example makers. I hate that! I believe a reffing crew needs to go out there determined to not miss a thing, the whole aim small miss small thing. To assume you'll miss a call here and there, while realistic, should never be settled for.
As for the "8 experienced" comment, I just thought it a bit hard to fathom coming off of a tourney with sometimes half as many inexperienced refs on the field. But I think with the right philosphy, 8 refs would be more than enough for a 7-man game.
Yeah, I see the tone I used. I don't mean it to sound like that. Whatever you call it, the whole point is to give players who systemize playing on pause. There is a problem and it goes against the most basic aspect of our sport: when you're marked with a valid hit you are out of the game and you are supposed to quit playing and leave the field. We've had this discussion already on other threads and seen interviews with players who basically admit that they will push to the limits of what they can get away with. Especially in X-Ball.

And I don't go out with the attitude that I expect to miss calls. But I am realistic that it will happen even though I bust my ass to avoid missing anything.

When players start getting benched for getting caught multiple times playing on then they will be much more likely to stop their agressive action when they feel that they have most likely been marked. The result ends up bringing the game back to what it was meant to be to start with.

Yes, 8 refs per field is the minimum requirement for Millennium. And I think we might even need to add 2 more refs to that. I have reffed with Joy Division and with SC Ironmen at Millenniums and in every case got tremendous praise for jobs well-done. But we still missed some tight situations however much we tried. I have reffed with GZ at two World Cups with plenty of refs and ditto. We did a great job but sometimes we missed some close situations and had to pull both mugger and muggee. Think what you like about that.

Steve
 

Baca Loco

Ex-Fun Police
... here goes the heretic again

Originally posted by Wadidiz
Yes, 8 refs per field is the minimum requirement for Millennium. And I think we might even need to add 2 more refs to that. I have reffed with Joy Division and with SC Ironmen at Millenniums and in every case got tremendous praise for jobs well-done. But we still missed some tight situations however much we tried. I have reffed with GZ at two World Cups with plenty of refs and ditto. We did a great job but sometimes we missed some close situations and had to pull both mugger and muggee. Think what you like about that.

Steve
The reason top quality players have made better referees is because they see and understand what's going on better and tend to react to them quicker. That doesn't mean they are doing, or have done a great job--only that they've done a noticeably better job than the norm.
And it clearly isn't good enough. And won't be until training refs is systematized on a different basis than it has ever been done before. It doesn't matter what rules you use if the refs aren't capable of consistently and uniformly enforcing them.
 

Wadidiz

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... here goes the heretic again

Originally posted by Baca Loco
The reason top quality players have made better referees is because they see and understand what's going on better and tend to react to them quicker. That doesn't mean they are doing, or have done a great job--only that they've done a noticeably better job than the norm.
And it clearly isn't good enough. And won't be until training refs is systematized on a different basis than it has ever been done before. It doesn't matter what rules you use if the refs aren't capable of consistently and uniformly enforcing them.
That's why my suggestions are a full, I hope, comprehensive package. A new start with emphasis on training, consistency and tougher rules on the repeat offenders. Here's the whole package, once again:
_____________________________
Suggestions for Millennium, NPPL, PSP and X-Ball


1. Continue to recruit and train PRO refs to get them up to the level they need to be.

2. Require a pre-tournament briefing for all refs to make sure everyone is totally consistent on enforcement of the rules. At the briefing give them a pop-quiz to gauge how well everyone knows the rules and go over the important rules most get wrong. Minus points will be assessed for judging-player team members who fail to attend such meetings.


3. Carefully monitor the quality of judging at every tournament and encourage excellence and consistency. (Perhaps one or two video cameras could be set up to monitor quality and for possible later review, but not to change any decisions.)


4. Institute a 3-strikes-you're-out rule: if any player gets caught and penalized for the same violation (playing on, for example) 3 times during the same tournament, that player shall be pulled from the tournament and the team shall play with 1 player less.


5. If a player is pulled from 2 tournaments during a season then the player shall be automatically suspended from NPPL and Millennium for the remainder of the season or the next 2 tournaments, whichever is most.


6. Keep statistics of penalized infractions and violators.


7. Put in and enforce very clear rules about threatening, abusing (physically or otherwise) or attempting to intimidate refs. Make suspensions for said offenses mandatory with no exceptions. Zero tolerance!


8. Make sure that NPPL, PSP and X-Ball tournaments have a mix of international refs to avoid the appearance and possible reality of bias because these events are now truly international.


9. Assign to every field a head-judge who is independent of any player/ref team and who has the authority to maintain quality and consistency and to assess penalties for infractions committed by judges (such penalty assessments shall be reported to the ultimate judge who shall then, after verification, apply the penalties).

10. All professional and amateur teams shall be required to commit to judging one tournament in the series in order to be eligible for their points at season’s end.

11. The judging teams who are performing their duties for series points shall be subject to all the penalties related to infractions committed during the tournament in question, e.g. failure to wear goggles in the presence of un-bagged markers, etc. The required warnings and penalty assessments shall be spelled out in a list (I suggest 50 points for most infractions after one warning).


12. Judges who are professional or who are not performing their duties for series points shall be subject to the same applicable rules as the judges in point 10, except that any penalty point assessments shall result in a fine of €1.00 or $1.00, whichever is applicable, or the equivalent in local currency, for each penalty point assessed. For example a judge who fails to wear her/his goggles when and where required after one warning shall be assessed a penalty of €50 or $50 for each infraction. (These are tough fines but judges must set examples.)


13. Pay entry-level refs a minimum of €100/$100 per judging day plus supply them with lunch and drinks (even dinner if they are required to work past 6.00 PM). Pay senior-level or more experienced refs €125/$125 per day. Pay head field-judges a minimum of €200/$200 per day.


14. Require a minimum of one judge for every two players, plus three judges, including head-field judges, e.g.

 for 5-player: 8 judges
 for 7-player: 10 judges
 for 10-player: 13 judges


15. Require that minimum safety requirements are enforced for any venue that has a league-sanctioned tournament. Any breeches of these requirements must be rectified before the start of the tournament at risk of losing any future sanctioning. The requirements should include, but not be limited to:

 a minimum netting standard vis-à-vis quality, height, etc.
 the presence of an ambulance and/or trained paramedics
 all fields must be free of undue safety hazards
 definite inspection of every high-pressure tank used
 strict enforcement of barrel-bag and goggle-on rules

16. Change chronographing rules to require exit chronographing which will be expedited by allowing convenient chronographing on the way to the elimination box. Chronographing of non-eliminated players can be expedited by use of hand chronos supplied by the promoter or judging organization.


17. Get rid of the don't-look rule in NPPL. Players naturally have a strong desire to see the outcome of the game. They just have to shut up and not point. With more refs, enforcing the gag rule should not be a problem.
______________________________

But, of course, now I realize that all PRO refs would even be better if the league/promoters/those who pay entry fees can afford them.

Steve
 

Beaker

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3 strikes your out...

Originally posted by Wadidiz
I have reffed with Joy Division and with SC Ironmen at Millenniums
Did you ref Joy this year with SC? Diablo field, wore shorts I think and Vents goggles if I remember correctly?
 

Wadidiz

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3 strikes your out...

Originally posted by Beaker
Did you ref Joy this year with SC? Diablo field, wore shorts I think and Vents goggles if I remember correctly?
Uh, oh. You're getting personal here. Did you see me make some goof-up? No, I didn't wear shorts. May have looked that way with the slim knee-pads I was wearing. Did wear my back-up Vents for a few minutes when my others got misplaced.

OK, now I'm girding myself for some criticism.:eek:

Steve
 

Beaker

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3 strikes your out...

Originally posted by Wadidiz
Uh, oh. You're getting personal here. Did you see me make some goof-up? No, I didn't wear shorts. May have looked that way with the slim knee-pads I was wearing. Did wear my back-up Vents for a few minutes when my others got misplaced.

OK, now I'm girding myself for some criticism.:eek:

Steve
Yeah, i thought it was Shorts and pads but obviously not.

No problem - but you did 1-4-1 me for playing on :)

Just trying to put a name to the face :)
 

Wadidiz

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3 strikes your out...

Originally posted by Beaker
Yeah, i thought it was Shorts and pads but obviously not.

No problem - but you did 1-4-1 me for playing on :)

Just trying to put a name to the face :)
Wow! I did do some 1-4-1s but I don't remember doing that against any Brits, if you are British. I only remember a couple of Americans, a French guy, and a Swedish guy.

What were the situations, if you care to say?

Steve