NPPL Super Seven Series

[TJ Lambini]

I would say that

X-Ball teams will be asked to sign a contract saying they'll only play X-Ball, but if the PSP also runs 'normal' paintball then these teams will be able to play NPPL. I suspect the NPPL will run no clauses.

And beside, who says that NPPL 7-man is going to be 'normal' Paintball?

On the other side of tha pond, will tha Millennium align itself with NPPL or PSP?

 

[Bigdog]

I would say that

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
And beside, who says that NPPL 7-man is going to be 'normal' Paintball?

On the other side of tha pond, will tha Millennium align itself with NPPL or PSP?

I would hope that it would be the NPPL, it would make more sense - same format, teams from either side can attend events at the other with no extra hassles of trying new formats or the like.

It would be a HUGE step towards standardising things, but I also think that its only the first step. Some way needs to be thought out that will change paintball as we know it into a big wet glove that can be used to repeatedly (and more often) hit the face of the outside public & get there attention focused on us in the background shouting "We are a real SPORT".

At the moment all I can see as being my best way of helping is to participate, and hope that the organisers either come up with a good idea, or stumble blindly into a lucky break that gets us all noticed.
D

 

[Wadidiz]

I get indications from a very reliable source that some of the suggestions I have been rambling on about on different threads here are planned to be implemented in the new NPPL (not sure if it is coincidence or not). There will definitely be substantial money applied to bring in a new era of quality officiating. It seems to be more on the order of what Chris Raehl has suggested (all PRO with expenses paid) rather than the player-refs of the past. What remains to be seen is whether or not there be new, tougher rules like the "3-strikes-you're-out" that I suggested. That is being looked at.

It all sounds very promising and I really hope Millennium will be part and parcel of the whole package and echo the new WDP-supported NPPL. And why shouldn't they since WDP has been so much a part of Millennium and Millennium set the standard that NPPL now will adopt?

And as someone already mentioned, why can't the Millennium series include the X-Ball series at their venues?

Steve

 

[raehl]

3 strikes your out...

You don't really need it. If you think you do, your penalties for the three infractions wern't severe enough.

Basically, if your penalties have a significant impact on the success of the team that the player is on, teams will self-regulate out problem players for the simple reason that they won't want to risk losing because one of their players can't behave themselves. Either the players will modify their behavior to get less penalties so they have a chance at winning, the problem players will get kicked off the team, or their continuing lack of success will cause their funding to evaporate. (Well, the last would never happen, as the mere threat of it would get people shaping up in a hurry.)


Even if just existing NPPL rules were rigorously enforced, I think that would make an immense difference in the behavior level at the events.


I also think there will be a bit of a social effect - NPPL seems to be doing some very significant advertising that they won't be tolerating BS. That both sends out a message to current players in advance, and should also attract players who share the same philosophy and are not currently attracted to national-level tournaments. If you have a bunch of customers who demand what NPPL is promising, the league becomes motivated to provide it lest they lose those customer's money.

This is actually something I'm watching rather closely. As the head of a league where cheating/behavior problems are nearly nonexistent, and a league that despite severe obstacles to growth (eligibility requirements) doubles or triples in size each year, I've long been saying that there are a LOT more customers out there to be reached by offering a clean, fun game than there are to be reached by tolerating poor behavior. This is looking like it'll be the experiment to see if I've just been blowing hot air the whole time or not.



- Chris

 

[Wadidiz]

3 strikes your out...

Originally posted by raehl
You don't really need it. If you think you do, your penalties for the three infractions wern't severe enough.

Basically, if your penalties have a significant impact on the success of the team that the player is on, teams will self-regulate out problem players for the simple reason that they won't want to risk losing because one of their players can't behave themselves. Either the players will modify their behavior to get less penalties so they have a chance at winning, the problem players will get kicked off the team, or their continuing lack of success will cause their funding to evaporate. (Well, the last would never happen, as the mere threat of it would get people shaping up in a hurry.)


Even if just existing NPPL rules were rigorously enforced, I think that would make an immense difference in the behavior level at the events.


I also think there will be a bit of a social effect - NPPL seems to be doing some very significant advertising that they won't be tolerating BS. That both sends out a message to current players in advance, and should also attract players who share the same philosophy and are not currently attracted to national-level tournaments. If you have a bunch of customers who demand what NPPL is promising, the league becomes motivated to provide it lest they lose those customer's money.

This is actually something I'm watching rather closely. As the head of a league where cheating/behavior problems are nearly nonexistent, and a league that despite severe obstacles to growth (eligibility requirements) doubles or triples in size each year, I've long been saying that there are a LOT more customers out there to be reached by offering a clean, fun game than there are to be reached by tolerating poor behavior. This is looking like it'll be the experiment to see if I've just been blowing hot air the whole time or not.



- Chris

Chris,

I sense you are proud of the cleanness of your league and it sounds good. Problem is it just doesn't apply to the top level of the sport where money, egos and the speed of the game all contribute to players constantly pushing the envelope, especially in the playing-on area.

The new regime that NPPL are pushing needs to come with a few, tougher rules that have teeth. Here's why (and this has come out of much discussion on other threads):

Even if the refs are well-trained, well-motivated, competent and consistent, it is virtually impossible to catch the playing-on even most of the time. It just happens too quickly. Therefore, under current rules, it is just too tempting to push it. If you make the penalty for a single playing-on incident harsher (e.g. 3-4-1) then it might just be too harsh for many specific situations. If you penalize the repeat offenders then you're more likely to modify the behavior of the players who have systemized playing-on, and that is what we're out to control.

Same thing for those who argue with or try to intimidate judges.

I could go into more detail to support the argument but instead I recommend you really read, not just scan, the discussions in the thread "Enforcing the rules...". I think top-level, experienced players understand what I'm saying.

Steve

 

[Robbo]

Re: 3 strikes your out...

Originally posted by Wadidiz
Chris, I sense you are proud of the cleanness of your league and it sounds good. Problem is it just doesn't apply to the top level of the sport where money, egos and the speed of the game all contribute to players constantly pushing the envelope, especially in the playing-on area.
Steve

Oh come on Steve, don't deprive our mate Chris of all those ideologies the young so often embrace that fly in the face of logic, experience and sometimes, common sense.
It's all part of growing up as both you and I know only too well

Robbo

 

[Wadidiz]

Re: Re: 3 strikes your out...

Originally posted by Robbo
Oh come on Steve, don't deprive our mate Chris of all those ideologies the young so often embrace that fly in the face of logic, experience and sometimes, common sense.
It's all part of growing up as both you and I know only too well

Robbo

Maturity does have its benefits, don't it, mate.

 

[Bigdog]

Ok

now that we have heard from the prosthetic hip brigade....

I think that the move to pro refs is the best way, but, they are going to be pretty well hated if they do their job right, so they have to be excellently trained, well paid & constant, and by that I mean the same guys (employed by the comittee) at every event. That would get rid of the thoughts of "I'm not playing that event - their reffing is sh1t"
Gonna take a while, but that'll be the best.
Refs that don't care who you are, if you're hit you're out, think about other things later.

 

[Bigdog]

oh yeah...

make the penalties bigger, not just tough (1-4-1) but MEAN (get caught & your team loses their armbands)

Make it a situation where players would rather be fast & fair than take that 1 extra step that'll get their team pulled.

Oh yes, public flogging for wipers, with salted bullwhips, then sell their kit to feed blind mongolian orphans. That'll learn 'em.

 

[Robbo]

Re: Re: Re: 3 strikes your out...

Originally posted by Wadidiz
Maturity does have its benefits, don't it, mate.

True enough, and denying the existence of any prosthetic hip as Bigdog suggests, I will concede however, that the sunny morn of Chris's naivety is eventually replaced with a night time of cynicism when you get to our age.
Still, at least the real world is between us somewhere
Pete