New 15bps ramping rule

[RoryM]

Well, i thought my question hsd been answered by Hatts earlier, but Intheknow has brought up a perfectly valid point.

Insurance companies will doo all they can to find a route out of a claim, as they are perfectly and legally entitled too. Your insurance is a contract, and if you break that contract, you aint insured, and even if it goes to arbitration, you will only get a percentage of payout to reflect any non-compliance on your part if they find in your favour.

A ramping gun is not a true semi, there is no argument against that. Period. And tats where we should all stop and look at before we continue down this road. Get that sorted so we can run legal, insured, safe events, and we can then move on.

If the home office is happy with the ramping guns, then present this to the insurance companies and get the proper cover, but do not be surprised if thay inflate the premiums as they have no history to base their risk assesment on for this new type of marker effectively, and believe me , they make you pay for unknown risk like a gypsy tarmac layer....

 

[Russell Smith]

Originally posted by RoryM




A ramping gun is not a true semi, there is no argument against that. Period. And tats where we should all stop and look at before we continue down this road. Get that sorted so we can run legal, insured, safe events, and we can then move on.

OK I can give anyone of you ten guns that all ramp and I bet you all a pound to a penny, you will not find the cheat, nobody ever does.
so what do we do allow it to carry on because you don't want to rock the boat.
In this country only about 25% of all markers are within the "true semi" rule.
Most markers add shots (if you want to admit it or not).
By doing what we suggest we are sure we can bring everyone in line and police the new rule.
I have been shown these cheats on markers in the UK and the problem is worse in the USA.
We all need to work together to sort this out.



Russ

 

[RoryM]

Russ,

Absoloutly no question on the working together to work this out. And yes finding the cheats is a difficult job.

Firstly, are ramping boards legal in the UK under HO guidlines on air weapons?

 

[Russell Smith]

Originally posted by RoryM


Russ,
Firstly, are ramping boards legal in the UK under HO guidlines on air weapons?

We had ramping markers in use before and we was in a very grey area, we never put it to the test, and took advice at the time to ban there use ourselves.
We know have a much better relationship with the home office thanks to efforts made by the ukpsf, and we are talking with them to clear up the grey area.
Only a court can tell us what is allowed in law but the home office has to give us guidelines.

We are also talking to the major leagues in the world because we have to make the major rules the same no matter where you play.

Most of the markers in use in the sport do add shots, and if that is with the software or bouncing triggers - you can decide yourself.
But the facts are that we can not police the rule as it is, and neither can anyone else.
We now have the equipment so we can police the rule we are trying to bring in.
It would be silly to say to everyone in the UK that you have to do this at all UK events but when you go abroad you have to change back to what we use at the moment, and that is why we are talking to the PSP and the NPPL to encorage them to adopt the same rule.
We understand why some people are against it, they say I dont cheat and I fire fast enough, well do they, or do they get help?
And a very simple fact to leave you with.
Everyone who has played tournament paintball in any country WOULD have faced an illegal marker if you use the rule in use at the moment.


Russ

 

[Hatts]

Originally posted by Intheno
ramping is full auto, anything other than strict Semi (as defined by the ASTM in the US) is classed as full auto, by law.

I appreciate you may be referring to US law but Russell's and the PA's primary concern is with UK law. Russell is however sensible enough to appreciate that what the PA has proposed is potentially a major change that could affect every operator and manufacturer which is why he's talking to both the PSP and the NPPL so we can try and work something out that will potentially benefit everyone.

On the subject of UK law perhaps I can help you with a few pointers...

Ramping or "assisted modes" of fire are not classed as fully auto under UK fire arms law which is why we're speaking to the HO.

Insurance policies covering the hosting and running of paintball games do not make any reference whatsoever to types of guns or modes of fire, they insure the operator to run an event...

organising an event, or even running a full time paintball site without public liability insurance is actually NOT illegal. The only legal requirement is for employers liability insurance.

For info we've already spoken with the insurance people on this very subject and they are quite happy that with the proposed tournament rule changes we can continue to police ourselves safely and effectively, certainly better than we are doing at present.

To address your earlier point then, yes I can you show you the PA's insurance certificate. So if the argument has gone away now can you do us all a favour and go with it please? Cheers

 

[Lucky]

Well it's been interesting reading through all of this.
One thing i have to raise is something that was touched upon earlier.
"Talent" !
Sure any muppet with a bulging wallet can buy a gun and then add the necesarry chipset, to ramp the gun up in an attempt to counteract his poor playing ability, but if ramping itself were to be outlawed rather than setting a 15bps limit, you would see a better cross match of playing talent.
I'm not the greatest player in the world, and it may sound sad but i love going up against far superior players to see how well i can hold my own against them, sure i could get a gun that fires a million balls a nano-second but it won't make my personal performance any better, it'd just make me stand around the field hosing away my hard earned wages.
i guess i have a different outlook to paintball than those that "cheat", for me it's about the game and the self satisfaction of taking someone out in a move that was for me "a great personal achievement" for others i suppose it's all about winning rather than losing a game that you played well in !
Another point is that we understand guns and the ramping implications. "But How do you think the press would understand paintguns after the first serious incident happened" ?
no-one gave real guns a second thought before hungerford, now i'm not suggesting there's going to be a hungerford style incident with a paintgun, but at some point in our future something will happen with paintguns that the press will latch on too, and when joe public read about 30bps......knee jerk reaction anyone?

 

[Skeet]

Especially when 30 BPS..is 1800 RPM...which is half as fast again as most fast machine guns/assult rifles!!

 

[ANDY-501]

Originally posted by Skeetmaster
Especially when 30 BPS..is 1800 RPM...which is half as fast again as most fast machine guns/assult rifles!!

Granted, but soldiers dont move as fast as those little front guys !

 

[Lucky]

Front guys with Assult rifles, "now that'd be a game" !

 

[Pee Wee]

Slight swerve from topic... what boards/guns are capable of ramping with a 15bps limit as we speak ? Is this new rule going to decide the most popular markers this year ? Anybody changed gun yet to take advantage of this ruling ?

Also, we'll have to watch out when playing tournys that do not allow ramping guns - like the D7's. Maybe have 2 guns/boards ?