Millennium - Value for money??

[Dougal]

Chicago

Why are the 2 elements of ' competition' and 'value' mutually exclusive in your eyes?
Is it not possible to go to an event wishing to compete, but also wanting to get value for your considerable money?

I see absolutely no contradiction in those terms.

If ONLY the top teams attended events, the promoters would definitely lose money, so it is important for them not to lose sight of the needs of the critical mass of their market.

It doesn't matter WHY I attended - to compete or get playing time - I still want to feel that I got value for money.

Dougal

 

[Iron Lions - Ed]

I thought the real reason they reduced it to 8 games was so they could cram in more teams to make more money. They advertise 160 teams being maximum allowed. I think I'm right in saying less than 90 attended Amsterdam so it didn't really work. Perhaps they should try and comprimise to get more teams and entry fees by increasing to 9 games and 140max or 10 and 120 etc.

I'll let someone else do the math on what the appropriate minimum amount of games to maximum teams that can attend is. Suffice to say less than 90 teams can't be what's being aimed for so increase games so more attend.

 

[Chicago]

They're not - in fact, I don't expect ANYONE to play unless they think they get value for their money.

What I'm getting at is that you can complain all you want that Millenium doesn't deliver enough value for the way *YOU* measure value, but that doesn't make it Millenium's fault, because I don't think Millenium is, or should be, in the business of providing play time. Millenium is in the business of figuring out who the best teams are, and provide prizes and more importantly exposure to the best teams. That's what those teams are paying for (or, in many cases, NOT paying for, because their sponsors find excellent value in paying for them to compete.) Teams who are there to figure out who is the best do not care if the number of prelims are 8 or 10, and are FAR more concerned with whether they are getting good competition. What is the quality of the fields? How good is the reffing? Etc. They'll trade 2 prelim games for better fields and reffing in a second.

Some people just like to travel and play some paintball. Travelling to play paintball costs about as much as travelling to do anything else, so it shouldn't surprise you that a trip to amsterdam to play paintball costs about as much as, say, a trip to Amsterdam to smoke weed and see the hookers. If you are looking for the most paintball for your dollar, don't play Millenium, unless maybe it's the stop near you.

Or, more clearly...

If you like tequila, and you buy rum, don't bitch that it's not tequila.

 

[Iron Lions - Ed]

They'll trade 2 prelim games for better fields and reffing in a second.

Maybe you've hit it on the head there. Based on other posts this doesn't seem to have happened perhaps causing this upswell of teams feeling they are not getting what their paying a large fee for.

 

[Chicago]

Ah, well, if this is a conversation about the reffing not being good enough for the money... well...

 

[Dusty]

i think Chicago just likes to argue with people.

if people did not feel they got value for money, then they didn't. if people feel they did get value for money then they did. it is a personal scale of measurement.

Were you there Chicago? I was not because i felt it was too expensive a trip to make. unfortunately some of us real world people have bills to pay, mortgages, holidays with family/spouses to pay for.

paintball is "only" a hobby for the vast majority of us, but does that mean the bread and butter tourney players should abscond from the larger events? I am never going to be a pro paintballer, firstly because i don't want to and secondly because i probably will never be that talented.

I will go where I like and when i like whether people like you think i should or not.

as for the refs, rules are published at the start of the season for all to see and understand. Refs have a duty to enforce these rules as some of them would fall under the term duty of care. anyone who refs understands what is expected of them. if they don't want to do it, then don't ref.

 

[Dougal]

How do YOU measure value, Chicago. Or rather, how do you think I should measure 'value'? 'Cos clearly the number of prelim games is not a valid measure in your eyes.

Has value for money improved since last year?

Again, if we are interested in good competition, does this mean we can't also be interested in value (as your last post suggests)?

Do you think we got better fields and better reffing for the reduction of 2 games?

If Avalanche post on the boards that they feel they did not get value for money, is this view more acceptable to you because they are a top team?

I asked a simple question to start this thread? ....do you feel that the series, and each event thereof, provides value for money?

Well, do you? Were you at Bitburg or Amsterdam? 'Cos I think it's impossible to answer unless you attended at least one event.

Dougal

 

[HERMITT]

The millenium has become a piss poor excuse for a tournament series. The prices have increased, the standards have dropped along with the playing time and all that is hapening is the organisers are making more and more off the little people.

They have the right to make money, that cannot be disputed. The problem is that te politics of the European paintball scene have enabled the MS to dominate and prevent any succesful rival series from competing. This is coupled with the fact that paintballers have very little trust for anything new or modern.


We are years behind the states because for the lower teams to show what they are worth they have to move straight up to the MS. This simply isnt financially viable for the vast majority of teams. I agree with Chicago in a few ways (eeeek!!!), the MS has become a showcase for the bigger teams and has little relevance apart from the experience to lower end teams. What we need is some kind of intermediate series around Europe that would offer less of an event but more of an atmosphere and opportunity to these teams. Something similar to the Barcelona Open (for 7man) and one of the bigger French events could join with the Central European series and offer a serious and affordable alternative. Players need playing time and a decent staging area coupled with a reasonable standard of organisation and good reffing (hmmmm). The peripheries can wait until they progress higher.

 

[Joey]

Inflation.

I have a feeling this is going to end up one of those thread "When I was a young lad, I remember paintball tourney's being cheap!. . .blah blah blah. . . "

Bread doesn't cost 5p anymore - so does it surprise you that running a huge tournment doesn't cost the same as it did 10 years ago either?

I think the MS choose to reduce the games so they didn't have to raise the price. As illustrated in other post the costs to play an MS are cheaper than an NPPL event:

MS
900 euros - div 3
1000 euros - div 2
1200 euros - div 1
1500 euros - Pro

NPPL
D3: 1180 euros
D2: 1425 euros
D1: 1588 euros
SemiPro: 1832 Euros


Ok - lets reduce the price - across the board. . . .

Would you be fine playing in a field filled with cow sh*t? Because no promoter could afford a nice arena. . or clean up the sh*t for that matter.

Would you be fine pissing and sh*tting behind a tree. . .because even if the bogs are gross - they are still expensive to rent (and clean out)

Would you be fine with a sub-standard netting system, just barely regulation height?

What about air - HPAC do not work for free you know!

Would you mind a staging area without tables, chairs or tents?

The MS WERE thinking of value for money when they decided to run 8 games rather than jack the price up!

What would this thread be like if the MS had jacked the price up say 200 euros a division???? (although that would STILL be cheaper than an NPPL event?!?!?)

Perhaps the MS is looking at the bigger picture, and this is the first step to something better. . .perhaps a new format for 7 man . . . .

 

[DYE HARD]

enough of these long postings!!!!!!

But we need 10 games, bugger the nppl or the like... were in europe and pay through the nose for every thing petrol, fags, booze, you name it.

let the yanks live here for a few years and then i think we migth hear a different answer to the fisrt posting!!

ps. ask clinton moore of nexus about value, 12 mintues of play in 8 games now i would be pi--ed.