Buddy - you have to stop thinking everything is directed at you personally
I made some general comments and was not suggesting you specifically were "dreaming"
Nick
Millennium SPL Info
- Thread starter TalieBun
- Start date
I made some general comments and was not suggesting you specifically were "dreaming"
Nick
Hmmmmmmm......I will leave any rebuttal for the sake of world peace and move on....Buddy - you have to stop thinking everything is directed at you personally
I made some general comments and was not suggesting you specifically were "dreaming"
Nick
Wait, who says paintballers were wronged?
I agree that paintballers are lazy, but then start thinking they were wronged when someone who does something they are too lazy to do themselves doesn't give them as much as they want and doesn't give it to them for free.
Raising prices is not a 'wrong'. Raising prices before you've paid them isn't a 'wrong' either. Prices are what the other party is willing to offer you a service for. Nothing wrong about setting the price they want. If you don't like it, don't pay it.
I agree that paintballers are lazy, but then start thinking they were wronged when someone who does something they are too lazy to do themselves doesn't give them as much as they want and doesn't give it to them for free.
Raising prices is not a 'wrong'. Raising prices before you've paid them isn't a 'wrong' either. Prices are what the other party is willing to offer you a service for. Nothing wrong about setting the price they want. If you don't like it, don't pay it.
...captive audience .... monopoly ........no competition .......hmmmm, they're wrong Chicago, just plain wrong !
Thats what I was going to say as I read Chicago's post.
A captive audience, monopoly situation is palatable if they treat you well - as if another alternative were competing if you will.
Rail roading........dictatorial......... rude.........unfair
Enough of the good points, when are you going to start listing the real bad points
OK - Barry Fuggle just called and I spent quite a long time talking on the phone putting some of these points across and he spent an even longer amount of time telling me about the changes they have planned.
Here goes ... but before I start I will tell ya that Barry has pretty much played it down the line with me and ain't the sorta guy who bullsh!ts, leastwise not with me and so .. we can pretty much take his word.
He 100% acknowledges the Millennium guys have had problems with the PR side of things and made pains to apologise for these shortfalls.
It was a genuine apology and not done because I was hanging on the other of the phone baying for blood!!!
As I said before in a previous post, this problem of bad PR will be addressed by the appointment of Mattheus (sp?) Itt, he's the German guy who organises the Bitburg event and so comes with some pretty cool credentials.
I haven't had a lot to do with him him but by all accounts he's pretty cool and certainly not out the same mould as ulrich von kilnkerhoffen.
Barry's just got back from a meeting with 17 SPL owners and 8 CPL owners and had what he described as, 'some really good and productive discussions'. All the teams signed up for this year and so it seems, on the face of it, those guys were pretty happy with what was on offer.
The Millennium have guaranteed a new turf surface for all the events next year as well as new venues that include the Nurburgring in Germany famous for that Formula one sh!t.
He is also trying to tie down a real cool venue with rock gig connections for the UK, it ain't completed yet but as soon as it is, he will let us all know which tells me at least, they have listened to the criticism leveled at them regarding the use of Crystal Palace for the Campaign Cup.
I suppose the points I was more concerned with was the 'way' the Millennium guys went about their business in terms of mandates to teams and vendors and what ostensibly looked like an autocratic, arrogant attitude in the past was basically a lack of thought on their part.
In no way am I making an excuse for them because their actions are in my head pretty indefensible no matter what the reason or excuse but I suppose if they were genuinely arrogant then we wouldn't be getting this type response from them now.
Barry would just say, 'Shut up Pete, ain't none of your business, keep your nose out of it'...well OK, he might not say that for fear of paying a swift visit to his local A and E but you get my drift.
You guys may not have organised yourselves into a representative body (and shame on you for not doing so) but it seems the Millennium guys have had a kick up the ass and have responded because of what was written on these boards and so in that sense, your voice has been heard.
In my estimation?
Well, we tend to see the Millennium Board as some anonymous body that passes down mandates and rules from above with no real thought or care for its customers but in reality, the Millennium Board is made up of a few individuals who I know quite well and have had my fair share of acrimonious dealings with them but I will say this much ... I believe (and like) Barry (and I suppose by extension the rest of them) to be wanting to do the right thing here by his customers and so it's a 'wait and see' exercise for everybody.
They are now acutely aware of their trading position in making sure they have to take care of their customers in the light of potential competition and I suppose we can't ask for more in that sense.
These guys, for all their faults, ain't idiots, far from it, they know when they have to change and are doing it.
Barry has certainly made the right noises in addressing the root problem and so let's hope his resolve is extended to last the year...my bet is he will.
Good luck to everyone involved in the Millennium next year and let's hope the Brits can get their act together with regard to standard of play across the board.
And a message for ther Millennium guys .......I'll be watching ...
Here goes ... but before I start I will tell ya that Barry has pretty much played it down the line with me and ain't the sorta guy who bullsh!ts, leastwise not with me and so .. we can pretty much take his word.
He 100% acknowledges the Millennium guys have had problems with the PR side of things and made pains to apologise for these shortfalls.
It was a genuine apology and not done because I was hanging on the other of the phone baying for blood!!!
As I said before in a previous post, this problem of bad PR will be addressed by the appointment of Mattheus (sp?) Itt, he's the German guy who organises the Bitburg event and so comes with some pretty cool credentials.
I haven't had a lot to do with him him but by all accounts he's pretty cool and certainly not out the same mould as ulrich von kilnkerhoffen.
Barry's just got back from a meeting with 17 SPL owners and 8 CPL owners and had what he described as, 'some really good and productive discussions'. All the teams signed up for this year and so it seems, on the face of it, those guys were pretty happy with what was on offer.
The Millennium have guaranteed a new turf surface for all the events next year as well as new venues that include the Nurburgring in Germany famous for that Formula one sh!t.
He is also trying to tie down a real cool venue with rock gig connections for the UK, it ain't completed yet but as soon as it is, he will let us all know which tells me at least, they have listened to the criticism leveled at them regarding the use of Crystal Palace for the Campaign Cup.
I suppose the points I was more concerned with was the 'way' the Millennium guys went about their business in terms of mandates to teams and vendors and what ostensibly looked like an autocratic, arrogant attitude in the past was basically a lack of thought on their part.
In no way am I making an excuse for them because their actions are in my head pretty indefensible no matter what the reason or excuse but I suppose if they were genuinely arrogant then we wouldn't be getting this type response from them now.
Barry would just say, 'Shut up Pete, ain't none of your business, keep your nose out of it'...well OK, he might not say that for fear of paying a swift visit to his local A and E but you get my drift.
You guys may not have organised yourselves into a representative body (and shame on you for not doing so) but it seems the Millennium guys have had a kick up the ass and have responded because of what was written on these boards and so in that sense, your voice has been heard.
In my estimation?
Well, we tend to see the Millennium Board as some anonymous body that passes down mandates and rules from above with no real thought or care for its customers but in reality, the Millennium Board is made up of a few individuals who I know quite well and have had my fair share of acrimonious dealings with them but I will say this much ... I believe (and like) Barry (and I suppose by extension the rest of them) to be wanting to do the right thing here by his customers and so it's a 'wait and see' exercise for everybody.
They are now acutely aware of their trading position in making sure they have to take care of their customers in the light of potential competition and I suppose we can't ask for more in that sense.
These guys, for all their faults, ain't idiots, far from it, they know when they have to change and are doing it.
Barry has certainly made the right noises in addressing the root problem and so let's hope his resolve is extended to last the year...my bet is he will.
Good luck to everyone involved in the Millennium next year and let's hope the Brits can get their act together with regard to standard of play across the board.
And a message for ther Millennium guys .......I'll be watching ...
I still don't think it would beyond the heads of the 16 cpl teams (or the 48 cpl & spl teams) to agree a mass walk out from the millennium. I doubt it would be unanimous, but if the bulk are going then the few that want to remain will probably follow where the best competition goes.
I'm not suggesting that they don't play this season, or that they all make the switch to the US. I'm suggesting the 16 (or 48) organise their own venue to compete at. And I don't think finance is an issue. The event doesn't need to be on the scale of the millennium. No need for stadiums, loads of divisions, etc. Just the 16 teams, a site with suitable fields, a compressor and some reffs. I'd be very supprised if a sufficient number of suitably equipted paintball sites can't be found arround europe. The UKrefs/PArefs have plenty of top level experience with the psp so there is one option for refs.
One of those team bosses just needs to take it on themselves to led the revolt. It won't be as glamourous as the Millennium to start with, but it will be the start of something much better in the long run.
And even if this doesn't go as far as a new league it would be worth having the body set up.
I'm not suggesting that they don't play this season, or that they all make the switch to the US. I'm suggesting the 16 (or 48) organise their own venue to compete at. And I don't think finance is an issue. The event doesn't need to be on the scale of the millennium. No need for stadiums, loads of divisions, etc. Just the 16 teams, a site with suitable fields, a compressor and some reffs. I'd be very supprised if a sufficient number of suitably equipted paintball sites can't be found arround europe. The UKrefs/PArefs have plenty of top level experience with the psp so there is one option for refs.
One of those team bosses just needs to take it on themselves to led the revolt. It won't be as glamourous as the Millennium to start with, but it will be the start of something much better in the long run.
And even if this doesn't go as far as a new league it would be worth having the body set up.
As long as you don't mind playing for no prizes, and paying your own entry fees and paint as you lose most or all of your sponsorship, you could do that.
I like Barry, gets his round in!
Seriously, an alternate league was never an option for 07 (this late in the day), the MS are perfectly placed to keep driving forward in the vein of past successes and learning from previous 'disasters'.
Lets hope euro paintball is a winner from all this, players, industry, promoters and the sport alike.
I'll carry on watching from the sidelines with interest.