Welcome To P8ntballer.com
The Home Of European Paintball
Sign Up & Join In

Millennium Moan-Fest

Robbo

Owner of this website
Jul 5, 2001
13,116
2,157
448
London
www.p8ntballer.com
Once again Piperooney, this just illustrates another more glaring point, shouldn't klinkerhoffen be doing this, after all, he's the expert isn't he?
In fact. this rule should never have been written in let alone persist.
ul'yeuk's the guy responsible for these rules ........why does it take you and Barry sitting down in Paris three years after the fact for one of the millennium to finally speak of change?
 

Piper

Administrator
Nov 25, 2001
2,638
27
73
51
Planet Piper away from you freaks!
Once again Piperooney, this just illustrates another more glaring point, shouldn't klinkerhoffen be doing this, after all, he's the expert isn't he?
He's the guy responsible for these rules ........why does it take you and Barry sitting down in Paris three years after the fact for one of the millennium to finally speak of change?

100% agree with you my bald buddy. Barry did tell me that it is something they would change for 2009, and I have no reason to think Baz would not push for it to happen.
So fingers crossed on that point.
 

Robbo

Owner of this website
Jul 5, 2001
13,116
2,157
448
London
www.p8ntballer.com
100% agree with you my bald buddy. Barry did tell me that it is something they would change for 2009, and I have no reason to think Baz would not push for it to happen.
So fingers crossed on that point.
So.......did Barry put out a press release concerning the change since it's such a hot button issue or not got round to it yet?

:):):)

Hmmm, let me guess ......
 

Bolter

Administrator
Aug 19, 2003
9,497
2,027
348
Kettering
www.facebook.com
I would just like to take this opportunity to stick up for the refs somewhat.
Im not by any means saying the reffing is perfect, professional or whatever. Far from it, but I did have the pleasure :)rolleyes:) of reffing a Millennium event in 2007, and to be honest it was the hardest weekend I have ever had.

Reffed a stupid amount of games in Toulouse heat, like 90+ per day, for free. Cleaned each field 90+ times per day, got a serious amount of abuse from all types of players, got shot to sh*t by any team playing below div 1 standard and after all that we were supposed to go against our own judgement and enforce these ridiculous rules, or we dont get full reffing points. If the players have a problem with a rule enforcement, they come to us, we tell them to go to head ref, he tells them to go see Baron Ulrichmonheister, Ulrich bores them into submission.
 

Robbo

Owner of this website
Jul 5, 2001
13,116
2,157
448
London
www.p8ntballer.com
I would just like to take this opportunity to stick up for the refs somewhat.
Im not by any means saying the reffing is perfect, professional or whatever. Far from it, but I did have the pleasure :)rolleyes:) of reffing a Millennium event in 2007, and to be honest it was the hardest weekend I have ever had.

Reffed a stupid amount of games in Toulouse heat, like 90+ per day, for free. Cleaned each field 90+ times per day, got a serious amount of abuse from all types of players, got shot to sh*t by any team playing below div 1 standard and after all that we were supposed to go against our own judgement and enforce these ridiculous rules, or we dont get full reffing points. If the players have a problem with a rule enforcement, they come to us, we tell them to go to head ref, he tells them to go see Baron Ulrichmonheister, Ulrich bores them into submission.
Bolt, in no way would I want to have a pop at the refs here because they can only take their lead from ulprick von klinkerhoffen and the rule book; they are the administers of his word ........klinkerhoffen has put these guys into this invidious position not themselves.
 

MissyQ

New Member
Jan 9, 2006
663
0
0
Harlem, NY
Visit site
Wow that post almost made sense, good work Pipes :D
You're referring to yourself in the 3rd person now?

and for those people (well, tech specifically) who want to make the Millennium non-profit. Do you mean you want everyone to volunteer their time? Non profit organisations still pay their staff. In fact 'profit' is only measured after all ex's are paid. I would hazzard a guess that the MS is already 'Non-Profit'. If you are saying that people should not be paid, then thats different.

....Is that what you're saying?
 

Robbo

Owner of this website
Jul 5, 2001
13,116
2,157
448
London
www.p8ntballer.com
I know quite a few people who own companies and their end of year balance sheet shows no profit whatsoever but if you knew what they were drawing as salaries, it would make your nuts retract back into your pelvic shelf .....:eek:

And so, when I sometimes hear, 'we don't make no money Pete' - I reply, 'don't make me laugh' :)
 

Rabies

Trogdor!
Jul 1, 2002
1,344
8
63
London, UK
- The rulebook is a mess.

For a start, the published rules are out of date and do not tally in several important respects with what is stated in the captain's meeting at each event. Some of the ad hoc changes are simply ludicrous: apparently, players may now wear as many layers as they want without penalty. Most if this is easy to fix, the typical paintball rulebook is not a large document (compared to almost any other sport) and it really should be a comparatively minor job to ensure it is clear, well written and consistently applied. If those responsible for the rules and judging cannot manage this, then they have failed in their job by any measure, and should be replaced.

On top of this, judges on the field have often not been made aware of the latest last-minute changes, so there is inconsistency between fields. Which leads to...

- The quality and consistency of judging is highly variable.

While I have seen a general improvement in the overall quality of judging over the last 3-4 years, there is still a large variation in competency between fields. The quality overall is still not back the level it was at when we were all judged by Scandawegians. The only solution to this is to employ only dedicated refs (who do not play during that season), and stop the practise of teams judging other teams. Which leads to...

- The dishing out of judging points to teams totally distorts the league standings.

A team's placement in the league should be based on its results on the field, and nothing else. Giving a team the equivalent of a win in exchange for a weekend's questionable judging is unfair on all the teams who don't get their names picked out of the hat. Certainly when a team's seeding for the following events includes reffing points!

- Rigidly locked divisions are killing teams and tournaments.

A number of teams and many players have been effectively frozen out of the series for one or more events because of the overly strict roster rules. I still feel some measure is needed to prevent outright sandbagging, but it needs to be much more flexible than the crap that is in place now. These rules are bad for players, bad for teams, and bad for the series which is effectively refusing potential customer's entry fees due to its own bad rules.

- The sponsors are being totally fleeced.

The industry sponsors should be the lifeblood of an international tournament, which is after all more than just a collection of paintball games on foreign soil. The trade show is one of the major elements of a good tournament, but I know a lot of sponsors are asking themselves why they are pouring so much money into the Millennium's pockets for relatively little return. In fact, several have already voted with their feet, and the tournaments are poorer for it.

- The punters are being totally fleeced.

Not just in the fees they have to pay -- in fact, if the items above were fixed, the exorbitant entry fees would start to seem more reasonable again. But as it stands, playing the Millennium series is a big waste of time and money for many. Add to this the disorganised mess that leads to teams being called to meetings in a foreign country (and not to coincide with an event) at a week's notice, and being expected to hand over large sums of money with no clear indication of what they are getting in return, which has happened on several occasions.

Most of the above just shouldn't happen -- it's not about money, it's about simple organisation. And I'm certain that the Millennium series is throwing away (and turning away, and scaring away) a lot of money simply because it is in such a mess. Money that could be used to rectify (to some degree) all the other problems on the list.
 

jus

Bulldogs
Mar 18, 2006
433
0
26
stafford
Jus, I think we need to get rid of the locked divisions altogether mate if we want to get anywhere near the atmospheres of 'old' which Jimmy (Sponge10) has just touched upon those when he mentioned the Toulouse event played in Ramonville.
But.....in locking the leagues down and with the Millennium then imposing charges like name change fees, ownership change fees etc, this created a 100,000 Euro income stream for them and may well go some way in explaining their resistance to giving up on locked leagues.

Now, if we focus on what we know to be good for the customer (both player and vendor) and for paintball at large, then all the advice we subsequently give to the Millennium guys in this thread can only be received (hopefully) with good heart.
After all, we all want the same thing here don't we?????


Coz if we don't - then something is seriously, seriously wrong ......
Sure, i understand where your coming from pete, :) however the pro's for locked leagues far outway the con's (organization from structure).
The system has just been used/abused as a cash cow, which leads me to tend to think the millennium are not really looking at the new teams such as mine or hurricanes to fund themselves, but cash rich sponsors/corporate team owners.

If they address these isolated issue's (drastically reduce the admin costs, sensible transfer rules) do you think we would see an influx outside interest? i know there are other contributing factors to contend with much higher up the **** list, but from personal experience, i think it was our main stumbling block.
don't even get me started on the fining process....... the most of the no shows this season is of the millenniums own doing in as much they made it impossible for teams to rectify an inevitable situation. and then!! could be faced with €10,000 per instance or you lose your spot.....