Millennium Moan-Fest
- Thread starter Robbo
- Start date
Having never reffed a milenium event I am not entirely clear about this, but do the refs get points for their teams, as opposed to paid?
I was having a talk with Piper the other day and he mentioned to me, (I don't think i am mistaken here but I just couldn't believe it) that if a player gets hit on a pot as he runs toward his bunker and on getting to the bunker, a ref is then empowered to give him a 1 for 1, is this correct??????
Please tell me it ain't so .....
Please tell me it ain't so .....
Robbo - we told you this sh#t has been going down now for 3 years at least. If you 'play on' in any way they 1 4 1 you. They aim to 'redress the balance' immediately. I kid you not we (as in Op Sandbag with Ledz, Julian etc) have seen some ridiculous stuff first hand. I have also seen players lose their barrel bag out of their pocket and been penalised heavily.
What we see now is judges materially affecting the outcome of the games by exercising Ulrich's rules. More often than not no intent is there on the players part, but 141 is ruled.
It spoils the games, no question. The judges no longer have to officiate. Just wait for a player to make a mistake and pull a 1fer.
Its crap
Even if you do ask for a check and no shot is found at first, if the ref then see's something after calling you clean they will 1-4-1 you.
It does make you very paranoid if you have any inkling (sp) that you've had a ball come close to hitting you while running out on the break and stops you from playing for a good 10 or 20 seconds once you've made your bunker in fear of getting a 1-4-1
Venues need looking at. Nurburgring is a load of rubbish and Toulouse was terrible this year. The other 3 venues were great for what they wanted from local publicity and visitors, plus the number of hotels and amenities nearby could not be beaten really.
Turf I dont think anybody gives a **** about, if grass is cheaper, use it. I'd rather play on grass than on tarmac with the thinnest covering of turf.
If prices increase, numbers are certainly going to drop more so than they have this year, especially with budgets being much tighter this year but unlike every year, how do they justify the price increase especially with the quality certainly not increasing at the same rate.
Something should also be done about reffing points, fines and no show teams too. With locked divisions no shows can make a big difference as seen this year.
It does make you very paranoid if you have any inkling (sp) that you've had a ball come close to hitting you while running out on the break and stops you from playing for a good 10 or 20 seconds once you've made your bunker in fear of getting a 1-4-1
Venues need looking at. Nurburgring is a load of rubbish and Toulouse was terrible this year. The other 3 venues were great for what they wanted from local publicity and visitors, plus the number of hotels and amenities nearby could not be beaten really.
Turf I dont think anybody gives a **** about, if grass is cheaper, use it. I'd rather play on grass than on tarmac with the thinnest covering of turf.
If prices increase, numbers are certainly going to drop more so than they have this year, especially with budgets being much tighter this year but unlike every year, how do they justify the price increase especially with the quality certainly not increasing at the same rate.
Something should also be done about reffing points, fines and no show teams too. With locked divisions no shows can make a big difference as seen this year.
I always knew about players getting 1 for 1 for playing on but I assumed there had to be a degree of intentionality about it ...I assumed wrong it seems.
That being the case, and in an effort to let me get this straight, you are telling me, if a guy runs from the 'get go' to his first bunker and arrives there with a hit on his pod, he can then be 1 for 1'd even though, in all likelihood he would not be aware of the hit and therefore there is no intentionality involved.
By all means eliminate said player but to 1 for 1 him??????
That's just insane and goes against all commonsense principles of fair play and fair adjudication ....and the architect of this monstrosity???
....von klinkerhoffen ?????
PS I can see the principle behind this rule but my point is, if a judge actually see the player running to his bunker and sees the shot hit and then eliminates him from the game, so far so good, but to then 1 for 1 him is where it ventures into lunacy because there is no way there would or even could be an intentional playing on ...
Venues: Easily accessible with good local amenities, i.e. easy airport/motorway access, hotels/restaurants etc. Easy spectator access, the more public/local paintballers you can attract to a venue the better the trade village will be supported and the happier they will be to attend and support the series. Improved viewing with some form of field side speculating facilities for all fields, not just the CPL/SPL.
Unify the playing surface, if not over all the venues, at least at individual venues, be it real or artificial, as this effects playing style, especially where some of the fields are on grass and others on astro. Would also put a stop to the endless footwear threads prior to events.
With the above in mind, obviously the more 'showcase' the venue the more expensive it will be and therefore ultimately more expensive for the teams/players. though a minimum venue standard should be addopted and some of the recent venues have not ticked all the boxes required.
Reffing/Field Rules: Abolish team reffing, it only leads to complaints of bias and unfair advantage in ranking points, while it is a viable way of reducing overall costs to the organisers I feel this is outweighed by the bad feeling it generates.
Keep the 1-4-1 rule for minor infractions, but replace the more severe penalties with a penalty box (a la PSP) system, this makes teams work harder when they have a player in the box and introduces more tactics to the game.
There has been a relaxation of some of the more anal rules (stickers/layers etc.) and rules should concentrate on safety and fair play.
Bring back the self-check area rule, as some of the penalties for un-noticed hits have seemed particularly harsh since its demise.
Republish a comprehensive and up-to-date rule book, rather than an out of date one with appendixes.
Gun rules: Current rules are good, the adoption of PSP mode would mean an extra shot per trigger pull and that could be construed as a safety issue by insurers.
Division Locking: I can see the point of locking the CPL, even the SPL to a certain degree, however locking the lower Divs appears to be a way of increasing revenue and making game schedules easier to manage. The most ridiculous thing thrown up in D1 this year was no-show teams actually scoring event points based on their previous ranking, without a lock no-show teams would simply get zero points, all the other teams get to play their group games and everybody would be happy. Plus it would give visiting teams (e.g. Intercontinental Cup) a chance to play in a fitting division rather than sandbagging in D2 and upsetting the teams vying for a promotion/locked spot.
Roster Locking: Remove or relax the roster lock, enforcing a locked roster from the first event is killing teams and not giving them the chance to field new blood throughout the season, player ranking would be a better thing, allowing movement between teams/guesting or even a pre-determined allowance of higher ranked players on a lower div team. Should Roster locking be deemed necessary it should only be applied at the mid-season point. Team and player circumstances can change over a season, as we have seen this year.
Spot Sharing: Introduce the ability for teams to share a spot, especially in the higher Divs, this could lead to some interesting 'guest appearances' and if adopted by all the leagues would allow US teams to play on Europe, Euro teams to play in the US etc. without overreaching the individual team budgets by having to commit to all events of more than one series for a season.
Unify the playing surface, if not over all the venues, at least at individual venues, be it real or artificial, as this effects playing style, especially where some of the fields are on grass and others on astro. Would also put a stop to the endless footwear threads prior to events.
With the above in mind, obviously the more 'showcase' the venue the more expensive it will be and therefore ultimately more expensive for the teams/players. though a minimum venue standard should be addopted and some of the recent venues have not ticked all the boxes required.
Reffing/Field Rules: Abolish team reffing, it only leads to complaints of bias and unfair advantage in ranking points, while it is a viable way of reducing overall costs to the organisers I feel this is outweighed by the bad feeling it generates.
Keep the 1-4-1 rule for minor infractions, but replace the more severe penalties with a penalty box (a la PSP) system, this makes teams work harder when they have a player in the box and introduces more tactics to the game.
There has been a relaxation of some of the more anal rules (stickers/layers etc.) and rules should concentrate on safety and fair play.
Bring back the self-check area rule, as some of the penalties for un-noticed hits have seemed particularly harsh since its demise.
Republish a comprehensive and up-to-date rule book, rather than an out of date one with appendixes.
Gun rules: Current rules are good, the adoption of PSP mode would mean an extra shot per trigger pull and that could be construed as a safety issue by insurers.
Division Locking: I can see the point of locking the CPL, even the SPL to a certain degree, however locking the lower Divs appears to be a way of increasing revenue and making game schedules easier to manage. The most ridiculous thing thrown up in D1 this year was no-show teams actually scoring event points based on their previous ranking, without a lock no-show teams would simply get zero points, all the other teams get to play their group games and everybody would be happy. Plus it would give visiting teams (e.g. Intercontinental Cup) a chance to play in a fitting division rather than sandbagging in D2 and upsetting the teams vying for a promotion/locked spot.
Roster Locking: Remove or relax the roster lock, enforcing a locked roster from the first event is killing teams and not giving them the chance to field new blood throughout the season, player ranking would be a better thing, allowing movement between teams/guesting or even a pre-determined allowance of higher ranked players on a lower div team. Should Roster locking be deemed necessary it should only be applied at the mid-season point. Team and player circumstances can change over a season, as we have seen this year.
Spot Sharing: Introduce the ability for teams to share a spot, especially in the higher Divs, this could lead to some interesting 'guest appearances' and if adopted by all the leagues would allow US teams to play on Europe, Euro teams to play in the US etc. without overreaching the individual team budgets by having to commit to all events of more than one series for a season.
Robbo - therein lies the madness - they have removed any need for percieved intent from the 'crime'. I'll go back to 2004 and the XBall at CC that Nexus Eclipse played. One of the guys got shot in the middle of the pack - the ball having bounced off a bunker behind him and broke on a pot. The judge comes in and 141s him. So thats 2004 and I can honestly say it has got much worse since.
Op Sandbag 2007 - Germany, one of the guys gets shot on his loader, clipped really and doesnt notice. The judge, standing the other side of the bunker calls him out. He cant see this call and doesnt move. Judge 141s him and runs past the player arms pumping away. The player says "is it me?" and the judge 141s him again. 241 for a shot he is entirely unaware of.
We all have our judges fecked up stories but these are typical of the way it is being run these days. Tiny fields, loads of paint from ramped guns, running though lines of paint from the get go and 141s for being ignorant of being clipped. This leads to low enjoyment and poor VFM
Honestly, it is poor
Basically if a player is shot and then shoots a single paintball after said shot, they will 1-4-1 them, so in this circumstance and the one I mentioned, they are following their rules and they are pretty consistant on them on every field. But the argument isn't that, it's the rules which are wrong themselves
And at the pinnacle of this reffing debacle is von klinkerhoffen, just waiting to administer his unique brand of customer care to the unsuspecting ...... Hmmmmm, I think I might make an extremely short-lived comeback and play alongside you and Ledz and if klinkerhoffen tries any of that cr@p with me, I'll .......... persuade him not to.
I'll get banned, but it would be worth every single speck of dust that gets thrown up when his ass hits the floor
I'll get banned, but it would be worth every single speck of dust that gets thrown up when his ass hits the floor