Mill Series 2005

[stongle]

I see only Joy and Nexus as having brand strength enough to attract sponsorship at a high enough level to facilitate a chance of a full NPPL Campaign. Teams should be asking what they deliver to their sponsors, as there is no such thing as a free lunch. Not give us bullets cos we're pro.

Don't take this the wrong way (I'm not directing this at you per-se), but how do you represent your sponsors? Got a lot of Podium finishes, are you having an influence on the amount of bullets are shifted? The more money it takes to keep a team in the top flight (and it's going to), the more important these questions are going to become.

If I was sponsoring a team, I'd want em out winning and then kissing babies after an event. If they win, I want the paying public, or moreover the US teens thinking brand association. people think Dynasty, they think Shockers, people think Joy they think Angels, Nexus they think Cockers and so on. Paintball teams are effectively a black hole for money, Sponsors are going to start to want some bang for their buck. And if you can't win, why should I give you the cash, bullets or kit????? At least if you get a result in Div 1 you get better exposure than being the Pro whipping boy.

Handicapping the league to favour the Euro's, will possible be viewed negatively from the US, but now that Euro ball has fallen on the altar of the NPPL what can we do?

 

[sjt19]

I totally agree with you Glen. But i would point this out. Premiership teams like West Brom, Norwich, and other low ranked teams all have sponsorship deals that run into the millions. They may not be able to rival the big boys Chelsea and Arsenal, but they et by, and are able to play the league they want.

I agree to a point about brand strength. Joy have the Joy Center behind them, Nexus have Planet and PGI behind them. Without those things, they obviously would not be as attractive to sponsors. DYE have based their sponsorship programs based on the amount of product that the team can sell. See Joy and Nexus, but with the top 18 business next year, twinned with the fact that DYE will have no teams shooting their guns if everyone maintains their gun sponsorship then shifting the emphasis and criteria they use for sponsorship will have to occur.

If the TV exposure that PP have hinted at happens, then outside industry companies may decide that paintball teams have a value, and are worth investing in.

Either way, its better to be in the top 18 than not.

 

[TJ Lambini]

Originally posted by Chuck

I have done the Math of taking the team to the U.S and I do not think the players on the squad can afford 3 events! It's that simple. If we can not afford it on our Sponsorship package how are the teams with less of a budget going to be able to afford it?
Chuck

By putting their hands in their own pockets - after all, y'all do like playing don cha'?
I mean, tha whole point is that you are doing something that you love, right?

If me and my buds wanna go ice climbing in tha Alps, then guess who pays for it? Er, thass right, we do...why should y'all be any different?

 

[Beaker]

Glen's right. Unless a team has a product tie in I can't really see them doing naything for their sponsors. Saying you shoot paint doesn't cut it as I don't know any new team that comes on the scene go "oh Shock/Nexus/Tigers shoot a certain paint so so will we" nope, they go with the best deal they can.

The only thing that teams help sell is product, and to do that you need to be winning. Tigers were the only UK team that got a podium this year, and that was at a Euro event, none of us have come close in the US.

Just because a team in in the top 18 they will not / should not if the business has any sense - automically get more $$$. Unless that team can shift a genuine product or become an intrinsic part of a marketting campaign - a la Planet + Nexus then why the hell should they pour the money in?

Chuck - I think it is a sh*t deal, but I don't think the NPPL would be "cheating" the Euro's - just reflecting where the majority of market is. One way to appease the Euro's for no extra layout is to create a US and Euro "conference" system with World Series point counting across both. Then the Euro's can feel like they might place somewhere, even when it wont mean much in the world scheme of things.

 

[Chuck]

Originally posted by sjt19
1 It would be lost revenue if the events will be like they were last year, and merely partner events. PP saw none of the money ( i dont think) from Toulouse, Germany, Malaga or Madrid.

2. They wont be able to, but that is what happens in sports across the world. Novice teams have to win and keep winning in order to pull in the money.

3. There is no pro usa bias. The NPPL cannot help that airline tickets are expensive, or that we live so far away. Its not as if everyone in each division pays a different entry fee based on where they are from.

4. Assuming a team can muster the funds, they do have a fair crack at it.

5. Since when are the Americans bothered about having a truly world series? The World Series Baseball is anything but representative of the whole world. Having a few Euro teams in the Div 1 section would not validate the series in any way. I doubt that there are very many Euro teams other than the 5 qualifyiers who are seriously considering playing in the NPPL next year. The only reason that you are doing it Chuck is that the Jags are one of ht eonly teams in the UK (other than Shock, Nexus and the Tigers) who continually stive to improve. I do not think that there are many teams in Europe like you guys. If there were, then more teams than Scalp and Hellwood would have played the NPPL this season.

6. We are not, see above. The only thing that is more expensive is the air fare. I have had a look for next year, and they range from £350 - £750 per ticket. Cars, food, hotels are all cheaper. Even entry fee is cheaper.

1. I have been told that the events (3or4) are full blown NPPL events.

2. If the teams are unable to afford it then they will not be able to compete so why bother with any Euro NPPLs at all?

3. Of course there is a bias, if you live in America you can attend all 5 of your qualifiying events over there and not have to travel to Europe ( unless you need the points) But that is optional. There are 3 or 4 Euro events planned but you can only use 2 of those scores therfore to make up your 5 scores you must travel to the U.S. How can that not be a Bias?

4. I am talking Div1 or lower, where do you think the average 17 yearold Euro player is going to find £600 x 3 for the U.S events plus training plus the money for the Euro events. Factor in extra days off work College x 6 (extra).

5. If PP are not worried about having any one else in the world series why bother with the Euro events at all. True we do try to Improve, surely teams like us should be encouraged and not have obstacles constantly thrown before us.

6. Example: cost of travelling to Amsterdam £40 inc ferry and Diesel.
H/ beach £350 flight+ £40 van hire. thats £350 per person more plus you have to take 2 extra days holiday or throw a "sickie" and lose 2 days money!
And we will have to do that a minimum of three times, if the qualification stays the same. Twice is possible 3 times I 'm not sure.

 

[sjt19]

Originally posted by Chuck

2. If the teams are unable to afford it then they will not be able to compete so why bother with any Euro NPPLs at all?

3. Of course there is a bias, if you live in America you can attend all 5 of your qualifiying events over there and not have to travel to Europe ( unless you need the points) But that is optional. There are 3 or 4 Euro events planned but you can only use 2 of those scores therfore to make up your 5 scores you must travel to the U.S. How can that not be a Bias?

4. I am talking Div1 or lower, where do you think the average 17 yearold Euro player is going to find £600 x 3 for the U.S events plus training plus the money for the Euro events. Factor in extra days off work College x 6 (extra).

5. If PP are not worried about having any one else in the world series why bother with the Euro events at all. True we do try to Improve, surely teams like us should be encouraged and not have obstacles constantly thrown before us.

2. The majority of teams at any Euro MS event are local teams. They will still attend, and you will get all the other regular Euro teams who travel to all the Euro events. Playing int he NPPL USA will not be a reality for most of the teams. They will play the NPPL because they can, because it will be a local event, and because it will be a great event. very few teams will play the NPPL USA events as well.

3. There is no bias Chuck. Just because you live a long way away, does not mean the system is biased. Stating that only 2 Euro events will count is a great idea. It means that the series will not be won by a team that only had play weaker teams in the Euro league. The NPPL is an American series. They have events in Europe, but ostensibly most of the teams are going to be American. Allowing more than 2 Euro events to count may allow an average US Div 1 team to cmoe to Europe, win all the events and either win/get a better position in the series than they deserve.

4. I do not know. But that is not a concern of the NPPL. Do you think Forumla 1 bosses are bothered how much to costs to race? No, the teams always find a way to manage. The simple answer si that it is still a hobby based sport. And as such, people have to pay for it themselves.

5. Market Domination, monopoly, elimination of the PSP, profit making, any number of reasons. From their point of view why should any teams be encouraged? Why do any teams deserve a break? As long as it is the same for everyone its fair. Nobody is throwing obstacles in your way. Plane tickets, hotels, they are the same price for everyone. What has to be hoped is that teams like yours overcome these things, and go and compete. But the NPPL will not give a **** if there are no Euro Am teams at their events in the USA next year. Hell there were only 2 Euro teams in Denver (Shock and Nexus) and only 4 in Vegas. Did they care? No, because there were 160 odd other American teams there.

 

[Buddha 3]

Just be glad that they allow you to use Euro points at all... They are after all a NATIONAL league from the US. They have no obligation to cater to the Euro players. Be happy they do...

 

[Baca Loco]

A tiny ray of sunshine

Even with the sponsorship element of this current discussion youse are missing the boat. The focusing of sponsorship bucks to the premium teams isn't--in the short term at least--gonna translate to more money for fewer teams. It's going to an alternative concept in brand identity and to TV. The bigger companies dropping serious cash on the NPPL are re-directing their vision of the marketplace. Will teams still get traditional source sponsorhip bucks? Yes, but only the most competitive and/or popular teams. Forget Div 1, money probably will dry up for back of the pack Pros.
If y'all diligently read your PGIs I warned you a long time ago this was gonna happen.

Chuck: You're out of luck. Sorry. The only "fairness" you're likely to find is the same opportunity to spend your money to compete as everyone else. That it may cost you more isn't terribly relevant, excepting of course to you. If, in fact, the NPPL is gonna be the premier league yours isn't the sort of compromise they will consider.

However, I wouldn't be surprised tho to see something like what Beaks suggested considered as it would give the general Euro team population something to compete for. They could even incorporate the old MS into the equation and the Euro NPPL teams might compete for the Millennium Cup or some other happy fiction. It does make all the clamoring for the NPPL to come to you guys kind'a ironic though, doesn't it? Instead of coming to Euroland to compete they are (apparently) "partnering" with the establishment and redefining what it takes to be competitive. Today's word, boys and girls, is -- marginalized.

PS--I see in the time I was writing this y'all have zeroed in on the issues a little tighter.

 

[Chuck]

Thank you!

At last some of the real issues are being discussed in the open, that's what I wanted. This season everything was left until the last minute. Lets get it sorted now then we can plan properly for next year.

Sam I hope that the NPPL and PP do give a **** about the Euro Div1 teams. You have to remember that the majority of the local teams that enter major league events, do so to have a crack at the top teams. To test themselves once a year against the best. Now that the Pro league is locked and will be playing themselves, who are they going to look to? yep the Div1 teams because they are the only accesable ones.

Of course teams should be encouraged there has to be light at the end of the tunnel, if not why bother. That probably is my point, the bias is more of a fiscal slant and I will have to find a way around it like I always do. But for those that cannot what is the point of doing the Euro Nppl events? that to me seems to be where the lost revenue comes in.

Intheno you are not off the hook yet, despite having Sam as your unofficial champion. Please speak!

 

[stongle]

Thank you!

Originally posted by Chuck
That probably is my point, the bias is more of a fiscal slant and I will have to find a way around it like I always do.

And it brings a tear to my eye thinking of you and Martin with your little Kings Cross Cottage industry. Hawking body and soul to help the team.