Forget Campaign Results Predictions...
- Thread starter Stan
- Start date
Just Curious - would you class teams that have regularly played 7-man (yes, 7-man NOT 5-man) Division 1 or 2 domestic paintball for over 2 years new or inexperienced? A number of the teams playing Div 3 this weekend have been around for many years and though they may not have won anything, they have been regularly playing in the top divisions and getting placed or at least not disgracing themselves.
I'll take a couple of examples of teams that are playing Div 2 this year, as I feel they are in the right place. Team Zone played their first tournament together last spring and their first (and AFAIK only) Millennium last Campaign. They played Div 2 at Dartford this year usually (a 7-man tournament) with a couple of forays into Div 1. They've never won either of these divisions. Yet they really don't class themselves as a Div 3 team at Campaign and automatically entered Div 2. Dark Ritual had a major split in their team last year and lost a large number of their experienced players, and have been playing the SWPL league this year (no insult to the SWPL, but their standard is a bit below series like the PA). But they are an established name with a number of experienced players, so they are entering Div 2 this year.
On the other hand, I can see a number of teams who have been playing at the same sort of level as Zone or even above, and have been around with virtually unchanged squads for a number of years, entered in Div 3. Among these are teams that have been in the Sunday Club at Millenniums before - do you really think that they should be down with the new teams that play domestic Div 4 (or even 5!) in their first season?
I haven't played regularly for a couple of years due to time & money constraints and I'm not playing Campaign this year, so I have no personal axe to grind. I think Nick is right when he says that the Millennium Rules are to blame on this - I know an awful lot of teams that only play domestic paintball and the Campaign Cup (mostly due to money reasons) so according to the rules can class a novice despite doing very well indeed at those domestics.
The idea that all teams will genuinely enter the division which is the "right one" for them is rubbish - many will enter as low as they can to increase their chances of a podium place to give themselves bragging rights. On the other hand, I can see a number of UK teams that AFAIK don't travel to Millenniums who have entered Div 2, some of which really won't stand a chance there but are going to try to stretch themselves - all credit to them. There is also at least one Div 1 team who hasn't had a great domestic season and according to the RULES could probably enter novice, but haven't. Again, massive credit to them.
As I said, I don't have a personal axe to grind but I DO have a possibly overinflated sense of what is and isn't fair, and a team with 4-5 years experience and a number of Millenniums under their belt should never be classed as novice IMHO!
I'll take a couple of examples of teams that are playing Div 2 this year, as I feel they are in the right place. Team Zone played their first tournament together last spring and their first (and AFAIK only) Millennium last Campaign. They played Div 2 at Dartford this year usually (a 7-man tournament) with a couple of forays into Div 1. They've never won either of these divisions. Yet they really don't class themselves as a Div 3 team at Campaign and automatically entered Div 2. Dark Ritual had a major split in their team last year and lost a large number of their experienced players, and have been playing the SWPL league this year (no insult to the SWPL, but their standard is a bit below series like the PA). But they are an established name with a number of experienced players, so they are entering Div 2 this year.
On the other hand, I can see a number of teams who have been playing at the same sort of level as Zone or even above, and have been around with virtually unchanged squads for a number of years, entered in Div 3. Among these are teams that have been in the Sunday Club at Millenniums before - do you really think that they should be down with the new teams that play domestic Div 4 (or even 5!) in their first season?
I haven't played regularly for a couple of years due to time & money constraints and I'm not playing Campaign this year, so I have no personal axe to grind. I think Nick is right when he says that the Millennium Rules are to blame on this - I know an awful lot of teams that only play domestic paintball and the Campaign Cup (mostly due to money reasons) so according to the rules can class a novice despite doing very well indeed at those domestics.
The idea that all teams will genuinely enter the division which is the "right one" for them is rubbish - many will enter as low as they can to increase their chances of a podium place to give themselves bragging rights. On the other hand, I can see a number of UK teams that AFAIK don't travel to Millenniums who have entered Div 2, some of which really won't stand a chance there but are going to try to stretch themselves - all credit to them. There is also at least one Div 1 team who hasn't had a great domestic season and according to the RULES could probably enter novice, but haven't. Again, massive credit to them.
As I said, I don't have a personal axe to grind but I DO have a possibly overinflated sense of what is and isn't fair, and a team with 4-5 years experience and a number of Millenniums under their belt should never be classed as novice IMHO!
Hey Liz,
C'mon, these are obviously some very scared lil boys n girls with no game and no sac - we should pity them, not get mad at them.
Group hug for all tha poor, lonely, unloved sandbaggers, who have obviously got big holes in their lives that mean tha only way they get any sense of self-worth is to beat up on real rookies.
Where's tha love for these poor souls?
I think one of the key points here is not so much millennium ruling (however a rethink to this would possibly help) more so that there is very little to gain by stepping up this year.
From what I have heard there is no series prizes this year...is the correct? Had I realised this earlier in the season - I too would probably have kept my team in Div 3 (along with had I known how we were going to throw away each event as well!).
Previousley there were, albeit relatively small, series prizes for Pro through AmB but no rewards for placing in Novice/Rookie - this is an incentive for your team to step up as you are in with a chance of a placing just by playing enough event even if you dont podium at a single tournament.
But now we have no incentive to move up, in fact quite the reverse...more likely to finish in the Sunday Club / Podium thus looking much better for the team profile, oh and thank you Mr Millennium we will also get a discounted entry fee for the pleasure of doing so!!!
Now tell me that isnt promoting sandbagging. In my opinion these teams just have good business heads!!!
From what I have heard there is no series prizes this year...is the correct? Had I realised this earlier in the season - I too would probably have kept my team in Div 3 (along with had I known how we were going to throw away each event as well!).
Previousley there were, albeit relatively small, series prizes for Pro through AmB but no rewards for placing in Novice/Rookie - this is an incentive for your team to step up as you are in with a chance of a placing just by playing enough event even if you dont podium at a single tournament.
But now we have no incentive to move up, in fact quite the reverse...more likely to finish in the Sunday Club / Podium thus looking much better for the team profile, oh and thank you Mr Millennium we will also get a discounted entry fee for the pleasure of doing so!!!
Now tell me that isnt promoting sandbagging. In my opinion these teams just have good business heads!!!
Good point Teej
This calls for charity and sympathy
We should uphold these teams in a glorious spotlight to improve their sense of personal worth
Perhaps a PGI cover shot?
This calls for charity and sympathy
We should uphold these teams in a glorious spotlight to improve their sense of personal worth
Perhaps a PGI cover shot?
At the end of the day you are always going to have teams that attempt to place themselves in a lower division then they should be at any attempt and until somebody adresses this theres not alot that can be done about it. When we dropped down a division for Toulouse under advice from others, nobody questioned it or said no we couldn't do it. Because at the end of the day thats another team fee in the coffers and at the end of the day, money talks.
Until we have a recognised player data base and via this a team rating, like the one that the MPANL used to seed the teams playing that series, there is not alot that can be done on it.
You cannot depend on a teams integrity to place themselves in the right division for an event as there will always be a team that tries it on.
Personally I don't care as after Starwars I will be quitting as I have realised that I'm crap and even a weekend warrior with a site marker owns me.
Until we have a recognised player data base and via this a team rating, like the one that the MPANL used to seed the teams playing that series, there is not alot that can be done on it.
You cannot depend on a teams integrity to place themselves in the right division for an event as there will always be a team that tries it on.
Personally I don't care as after Starwars I will be quitting as I have realised that I'm crap and even a weekend warrior with a site marker owns me.
So you agree with tha board's view that your team and a coupla others has zero integrity?
And that's your defence?
You wouldn't make a good lawyer duder...
At the end of the day its all nothing but a bit of mud slinging and is it going to stick, not really (not with our new teflon playing gear hell the paint just falls off us). Mud slinging is what paintball is all about aint it?
Oh and I wouldn't make a good lawyer.......dammit best tell the Gardner brothers then as they offered me the job last week.
Is it true that the smart sparts stand is going to have a closing down sale sign out all weekend?