Designer Cheating !!!

[smartecosse]

why wait 30 years? it's here already

Originally posted by AJermstad
I'm not too sure about the full auto/burst fire etc. problem. But as for the chrono adjusting, you could add some kind of device to the end of the barrel of each paintgun (or somehow attatch it on the body)before they go onto the field, this device will measure the speed of every shot, if not the speed of random shots fired. This could then be relayed back to the chrono station, where they can monitor the speeds of the paintballs of every player on the field. Any recorded speeds above the set limit could be highlight or something along those lines and the player then pulled from the game or penalised at the end.

The trick with something like that would be having a universal device that can be very easily simply clipped on to the marker, and off again, without imparing the vision or affecting balance too much. The advantage with this is that the player wouldn't be able to manipulate this chronograph in the short period of time it takes before the game starts and all speeds from every player on both teams could be simultaneously monitored - thus eradicating the need for random chrono checks on field, therefore less game interuption.

Just an idea.

this link http://www.paintballlover.com/shopexd.asp_Q_id_E_854 is for a vl on barrel chrono that only costs $40 or so. Why not merely make it a rule that all markers must have one in competitions and that they remain as sealed units, any tampering and it's disqualification.

danny

 

[Duncster]

Me iz thinking that this thread iz wicked!!

I think you lot are really on to something!!

On barrel chronies are place on all markers at the same time as armbands. Each has a unique ID (matching the armband, perhaps?...) and, as Flash said, a marshall monitors a laptop. Which flags up any Players firing over 300fps, say.

Or to take it further, the monitoring software on the laptop only flags up "repeat offenders". ie, people who fire 3 or more shots over 300bps within 1 second, or those who have a high number of paintballs firing at over 315fps, say. Hell, it could even measure the BPS, to make sure the tourney limit isn't being exceeded.

These players can then either be chronoed on field, or earmarked for chrony at the end of the game. Nice clean, simple system.

All we need now is a nice little device with bluetooth capability to sit on the barrel of a paintball marker.....there's one for the big boyz to get even richer from....

======

Flash.... did you marshall there at all when we played??....

Dunc.

 

[Robin Hood]

Smartcosse, kinda cool, and definitely on the right track but not practical. I think something more specialised and obviously customized would be required to suit our needs.

Flash, I don't reckon this is gonna be a thing of 30 years in the future mate. The technology is already there waiting to be utilised. All we need to do now is get out there, patent it and get the paintball companies to (pay us of course!!) and invest the vast sums of money they keep stashed away to research the project and implement a scheme like this.

As for the massive no. of paintball spewing out at the beggining of each game and throughout - thus the advantage of randomly checking the speeds every second or few balls etc. There's definitely alot of room for potential and improvement, but I reckon it's most certainly a possible game plan for the future - (hey, any potential investors, just drop us a line and we can work out the small print!!)

With this the rate of fire could obviously be monitored - if there's a constant 16 bps throughout the game, then the marshalls know somethings up!! It could monitor the no. of balls fired, the speed at which they're fired - after so many spikes above the limit a player will be flagged or something......and with the player not able to tamper with it, the idea is almost foolproof! So he says.......(you could have corrupt invigilators, but that's not a technical problem with the system) Anyway.......just getting the cogs turning.....

 

[Kieran - Thunder]

Ok... a few questions on this on barrel chrony idea then:

1. Who pays for it???? Does every player have to buy one or are event organisers expected to buy them.... individual players won't want to buy them and if it was event organisers there would be a very limited market.

2. If it was the size of a VLchrono, I for one wouldn't want it on the end of my barrel.... makes staying as tight as possible very difficult!

3. What about ball breaks in the barrel etc??? Surely a couple of broken balls and the whole system would malfunction.

Although its a very nice idea in principle, I don't think it'll happen. There's toooo many impracticalities... the REAL solution has to be decent judging with existing on field handheld chrony rules.

 

[Flash-Bugout]

I agree totally that the technology is here, and if I had more than about 8 quid on the bank at the mo I could have a system within a couple of weeks!

My "Roll on 30 years" comment was more aimed at the rate of change in the organisation of paintball, as despite the best efforts of many people out there, who have moved paintball on lightyears, can you see some of the bodies required being set up within a couple of years?

A world governing body (eg FIFA)? It is practically impossible to get everyone in (say) the UK to join the national body, never mind a worldwide one.

Oh, if only I could afford a worldwide patent!

Ah well, hands up if you're tempted to print this out, and post it to yourself registered, so in a few years when someone brings out a system, you can open the letter and claim ownership.

And if there's any big companies out there who're thinking of patenting this, fine, so long as you let anybody else make the equipment also, for free

The only problem I can see with a clip on device for the barrel is that players will complain about "it's affecting my accuracy/range/sighting down the barrel".

Then again, if everybody on field has one - what's the problem?

I can see it now - not only will tourney websites have the points results, but you'll be able to download all the "stats" from the games, to see who can fire faster, yourself or "Mr Top Pro"

 

[Flash-Bugout]

Very crude pic, but hey....

Jiggy, you're right, the existing on-barrel chrono is way too cumbersome, I've mocked up a quick piccy on a stolen photo (please don't sue me ) of the sort of thing I think we'll end up seeing, if this sort of thing eer comes into existence.

As for who pays, you're right, there would be a limited market, possibly only being bought by the regulatory group who attend every big tourney - you wouldn't even need one for each player, as Dunc says, there could be one per armband, which for Campaign Cup last year (as an example):

6 fields - one monitor station (laptop) per field,
14 players per field - 14 on-marker-devices

=

84 on-marker-devices needed (plus maybe spares, possibly a 2nd set, so that the next team can be fitted while the previous game is playing - they can walk straight on then)

As for ball breaks in the barrel, I think that it would be basically a mini radar chrony, so ball breaks would affect it the same way the they affect standard chronying at the end of the game.

Obviously the rules would have to incorporate something for a player who breaks a ball, then has to fire a few shots to stop himself being mugged, but boy would everyone get good at cleaning their barrels!

Anyways, here's the link to my mock-up

http://www.geocities.com/mathewstace/shortblock.jpg

And no, I was never any good at art....

 

[Richard Kirke (DUPS Rocket) UK]

Maybe I'm being a bit stupid but...

couldn't you just use doppler radar type thingys like we have on our roads...

Just have one at each end, and if and balls are detected firing away from the Chrony at greater than 300 then the alarm goes off, and the team is fined points/all markers are chronied/whatever you want to do.

This seem to be a bit too simple to be true... maybe you would need somethign more complicated or maybe it would be REALLY expensive, I don't know.

This just seems to be a lot simpler than each having a space age hujamagigit attached to the barrel linked up to a computer etc. Though it would catch all sorts of cheats. Oh for the money...

 

[Robin Hood]

Right, as with anything there are pros and cons for the idea. And with any new idea there are bound to be numerous obstacles and shortcomings to clear. Maybe it can be clipped to the top of the ASA adapter or something aimed at the tip of the barrel- it doesn't have to be clipped onto the barrel as such, it could even be clipped onto the feed, with a very small footprint as such so it wouldn't obstruct the view of any kind.

With the new tech. there is today I'm sure a unit many times smaller than the VL Barrel chorono could be relatively easily to design and produce. As for marketing it, yes I admit that it wouldn't be the kind of thing that would sell hundreds of thousands of units over the world, it would be something that an independant ajudicating body would have to take care of perhaps. Maybe only 80 or 100 would be sold or provided to each different tournament group, the NPPL or Millenium series etc. or each venue. This would severely limit the no. of units required.

Linking this in with who would fund such an operation, if you say had an already established and well respected company with the brains to do it such as WDP for example, if they manage to create a successful, effective working product then the promotion for that company would be huge!! They would have their name printed on a product that is attached to the gun/barrel of every single tournament player!! That's every player at every tournament!! Tell me that isn't good advertising?? It's like having the timing company next to the clock time at all the olympic events on tv for example! Then on all results from tournaments or cheaters nailed will be thanks to that company. I think it has definite potential that should be researched, shame I ain't got the know how to do it cos I wouldn't typing this now if I did!

Later all

P.S. The link doesn't work Flash

 

[Robbo]

This thread makes a refreshing change from the other that I am currently involved in where all out war seems to be the order of the day, anyway, I had a long conversation with Niall Squire the other day on this subject.
As most of you know he is the promoter of the Campaign Cup, now the flagship tournament of the Millennium Series, he told me that it is his intention and that of the Millennium board to introduce a new regime of judging to try and combat the problem with on field hot guns, especially the guns that have been deliberately made hot.
This is the deal, firstly, it is impractical to take apart suspect guns and try and evaluate whether or not they could be tampered with either on a firmware basis or mechanical.
This would just take too much time and perhaps beyond the scope of a tournament (at present).
The answer lies in on-field chronographing.
Niall tells me that each judge will be issued with a hand held chronograph, he will also have a mandate to check at least one player in each game that he adjudicates.
This means, that if there are six judges on each field, then at least six players will be randomly tested in each game.
Any gun found to be hot will be removed from the game instantly.
Any gun that provokes suspicion with regard to designer cheating will then be checked over and if that player is found to be guilty then he will be banned instantly.
Frikkin good job is what I say !!!!!
Now Niall fully realises that he will come under an enormous amount of negative pressure from certain peoples / teams but he is resolute enough to stick to the job, so let's all hope he gets enough support.
After all, the only guys who won't support him are the ones we are after catching.
We'll see what happens !
I will have a bit more info regarding this after Friday, coz I got invited round Niall's house for a meal and to watch the first run of the Campaign Cup DVD, not that I really wanna see it coz I ain't in it but a lot of my mates are, so it should be fun.
It’s a tough life this paintball job of mine…..but somebody’s gotta do it !
Laters all
Robbo

 

[Buddha 3]

Robbo, couldn't agree more.
the only small problem I see, is that the handheld chonoes I've seen so far, are nowhere near as accurate as the proper big ones. Will there be any provisions for that that you know of? (i.e. any markers found to be hot, get fired over the proper chrony, or whatever)