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Designer Cheating !!!

Tyger

Old School, New Tricks
Originally posted by Robbo


Tyger , I beg to differ, the point that was 'new news' (as you call it) was that particular teams are adopting this as a working policy, we all know that people (as individuals) will sometimes take the dark road but as a team ?
Tyger, come on, this is news !!
You just misinterpreted what I was highlighting !!
Regards
Pete
It's no new news to me!!!

I know of teams that PRACTICE cheating. How to call a ref off of you so your teammate can wipe. How to slide into a bunker and wipe off a hit. And even how to make a wipe motion that looks like something else. (My favorite is the "Gotta grab my squeegie" wipe and the 360 barrel roll slide wipe) Robbo, don't tell me you've never seen a "Dial a welt squeegie"? That was a team effort back in the 90's!

Point I'm making is that teams do it as "SOP". Becasue they believe "Everyone else does" so it's justifiable. Hell, I can take you to fields here in the states and SHOW YOU these teams! Wanna see an Am. A team crank up guns on their home field? I'll take ya next time you're up here. So, for me, it's old news.

-Tyger
 

Robbo

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Originally posted by Tyger

It's no new news to me!!!
I know of teams that PRACTICE cheating. How to call a ref off of you so your teammate can wipe. How to slide into a bunker and wipe off a hit. And even how to make a wipe motion that looks like something else. (My favorite is the "Gotta grab my squeegie" wipe and the 360 barrel roll slide wipe) Robbo, don't tell me you've never seen a "Dial a welt squeegie"? That was a team effort back in the 90's!

Point I'm making is that teams do it as "SOP". Becasue they believe "Everyone else does" so it's justifiable. Hell, I can take you to fields here in the states and SHOW YOU these teams! Wanna see an Am. A team crank up guns on their home field? I'll take ya next time you're up here. So, for me, it's old news.
-Tyger
Hey Tyger,
I don't in anyway want this to sound provocative !!!
I have had my fill recently of extended and heated debates :)
But (there's always a 'but' :) ) I have played for a long time now and in a lot more teams than yourself, I don't need to qualify that by listing them but suffice to say, I have witnessed pretty much everything there is to witness in paintball (except Magued actually shooting somebody that is).
I have never come across before, the notion that a team as a whole (not individuals making choices) deciding as a policy of play, to turn up their guns to facilitate higher velocities.
I'm sorry mate but I have never seen or heard of it.
Now I am not criticising you but you are not in what I would call an advantaged position to be able to give an informed assessment in this area, you are a cynic when it comes to pro paintball I know, and I fear I may be going that way myself on occasion but I don't think this has ever happened before, leastwise in my experience.
And I don't think in this case I am being naive !
Pete
 

Tyger

Old School, New Tricks
Originally posted by Robbo


Hey Tyger,
I don't in anyway want this to sound provocative !!!
---
Now I am not criticising you but you are not in what I would call an advantaged position to be able to give an informed assessment in this area, you are a cynic when it comes to pro paintball I know, and I fear I may be going that way myself on occasion but I don't think this has ever happened before, leastwise in my experience.
And I don't think in this case I am being naive !
Pete

In order :

Be provocative! Dammit! Enough of hte pussyfooting here, if you got an opinion, don't qualify it! I know that basic human rights allow you to have your own opinions!!! Get provocative! GEt in my face! Get a good debate (note the word is DEBATE, not argument!) going! Dare to piss someone off!

As far as my qualifiers go, let me tell you a story. There's a guy who lives around Las Vegas. Lived there most his life. He said once that nothing surprises him, but he sees something new every day. I may nopt play pro ball, mostly by choice, but on the other hand I'm exposed to the dregs of it on a week to week basis when I do play REC.

And I have seen a 5 man team in Minnesota perform what I would call a pre-mapped wipe! It was freaking brililant! Front man gets hit, he yells a signal to his back guy, back guy throws a volly downfield, front guy gets up and runs. If he can't wipe the hit with the pumping of his arms and legs he makes a creative slide into a bunker. And this was a PLANNED MOVE! And it was a team move as well, as both flanks had the plan.

Do I say pro guys do it? I am not qualified to say, that I admit. But when you see 5 individuals willing to push the limits of the ruiles to the breaking point, it may as well be team condoned cheating.

And, cynics in paintbakll are nessary, but it sucks to be one. I gotta take this hardline every timre I see an argument like this. :rolleyes:

-Tyger (Paintball's answer to Eeyore...)
 

Robbo

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Originally posted by Tyger
In order :
Be provocative! Dammit! Enough of hte pussyfooting here, if you got an opinion, don't qualify it! I know that basic human rights allow you to have your own opinions!!! Get provocative! GEt in my face! Get a good debate (note the word is DEBATE, not argument!) going! Dare to piss someone off!

As far as my qualifiers go, let me tell you a story. There's a guy who lives around Las Vegas. Lived there most his life. He said once that nothing surprises him, but he sees something new every day. I may nopt play pro ball, mostly by choice, but on the other hand I'm exposed to the dregs of it on a week to week basis when I do play REC.

And I have seen a 5 man team in Minnesota perform what I would call a pre-mapped wipe! It was freaking brililant! Front man gets hit, he yells a signal to his back guy, back guy throws a volly downfield, front guy gets up and runs. If he can't wipe the hit with the pumping of his arms and legs he makes a creative slide into a bunker. And this was a PLANNED MOVE! And it was a team move as well, as both flanks had the plan.

Do I say pro guys do it? I am not qualified to say, that I admit. But when you see 5 individuals willing to push the limits of the ruiles to the breaking point, it may as well be team condoned cheating.

And, cynics in paintbakll are nessary, but it sucks to be one. I gotta take this hardline every timre I see an argument like this. :rolleyes:

-Tyger (Paintball's answer to Eeyore...)
OK, now I see where the problem lies, we are actually talking cross-purposes with a common theme.
I agree with you, there have been institutionalised policies of cheating within teams when it comes to actions like wiping, playing on etc and 'yes' I have heard about dial-ups on squeegees and welded hex shapes on people's rings but I think the latter was more a unilateral action by players within a team.
It is much more of a determined and serious matter when a team as a whole (presumably with the captains consent) decide to wind up their guns.
The reason is because, a wiping and playing on incident can always be put down to a spontaneous action even if those actions are reflected across several members of a team in a single game.
But it's an altogether different proposition if those members have all deliberately designed a cheat into their gun; it shows forethought, collaboration and a complete denial of the rule-book and all it stands for.
Not just morally but also from a safety point of view and therefore I think teams have steered away from this dire leap into the quagmire of cheating.
On that note, I stand by my original assertion of it being news and ask you to reconsider what I have said bearing in mind that I have been on the pro circuit and been around all the top teams for nearly 15 years or so.
But once again, I ain't saying for one minute I know everything that is going on but my recent alliance with cynicism would hardly blind me to anything like this, but let me know if it has :)
Pete
 

Tyger

Old School, New Tricks
Robbo :

If you're talking about electrocheating, then yes it's news. B ut I still wanna tell ya that it's been happening in one way or the other for a while now. I understand your points, I'm just saying that it's nothing really new in my book.

-Tyger
 

Seraph

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Nov 26, 2001
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I see how this could easily be done. At Skyball I was only chrono'd twice. While a teammate of mine was NEVER chrono'd!
Not that we would ever take advantage of that, but i can guarantee that some did.

In my opinion, this problem AND wiping could be done away with one swift kick to the ref's arse! And following it with a sentence that goes something like,"get off your lazy arse and go check that guy!"
 

Flash-Bugout

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Jul 6, 2001
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Seraph:

Random chronying is all well and good, but unfortunatley not all that random.

Played a tourney once with 3 fields.

Field 1 Chrono judge only picked green markers

Field 2 chrono judge picked the team captain

Field 3 judge picked the tallest player.

On that day I was captain, taller than the rest of my team, shooting a green brix (aka inferno). You can bet your a$$ that every single game I played, I was running around 250. ;)
======

As for co-ordinated team cheating, ban the whole team for life! :eek: having been on the receiving end of an un-named teams "shoot the marshal so I can wipe call" I have no sympathy for the swines.