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Designer Cheating !!!

TheRo0sTer

VW's are the game
Well how about this??? Cheating Refs... I once had a conversation that intailed the fact that certain chrono judges could make your marker shoot 30 fps over what you chrono'd at before the match. Another thing this person pointed out that all markers are capable of being made to over chrono!:mad:
 

Robin Hood

Formerly Jermy
Feb 6, 2002
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An island in the rain
Originally posted by TheRo0sTer
Well how about this??? Cheating Refs... I once had a conversation that intailed the fact that certain chrono judges could make your marker shoot 30 fps over what you chrono'd at before the match. Another thing this person pointed out that all markers are capable of being made to over chrono!:mad:
The problem is that if the markers were made to max out at about 300 then some people may have diffictulty reaching that maybe only being able to shoot 270 or something.

About the ref's, you know you're in trouble when you're about to start a game at a tournament and the opposing team are giving hi-fives to the refs:eek: !! Then you've got you're work cut out. :D
 
It ain't clever

I have personally whitnessed this and other silly irisponsable stuff
I had a team of very experience torney marshalls running my fields.

Sadly the culprits weren't some big named pro team but a bunch of kids 14 -16 who played it to the hilt they were inocent and then later got cught out cause like kids do braged about it.

Like I said I had very good marshalls they pulled the gun out 3 of them checked it out and eventuly they got it to do it's "thing". The kids winged big time but were told they were given the benift of the doubt and were alowed to carry on playing but not with that gun. We ended up lending them site guns.

I think it's really sad that the new young blood feels the need to cheet to that extent and equally sad they had no qualms about doning it.

Sad but not dialusioned

Wiser and strickter

Sparklie
 
Originally posted by AJermstad
About the ref's, you know you're in trouble when you're about to start a game at a tournament and the opposing team are giving hi-fives to the refs !! Then you've got you're work cut out.
Yes or when the refs are speaking in another language (French or something) with the other team and spectators before and during a game!!!!!! :mad:
 

Duncster

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Jul 7, 2001
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My view on the subject...

OK. Sorry, I hate lengthly posts, but here's my input on the whole subject.......

I have actually played in a tourney not long after the LCD was released and in the captains meeting the question was asked if we could use our modes. The answer was yes. Illegal though it may have been, the answer was yes.....

Now, Full-On, at the time, had 3 people with LCD's, one of which was a Dark LCD from Warped and had Full-Auto, along with all the other modes, enabled (The other two had locked boards). After 3 games against other teams who had a few LCD's and Shocker's with Full Auto or Burst modes, I decided to say "Fu$K it Fieldy, next game, you're running full-auto too!!"

Anyway, I got shot out on the break and watched from the dead box in horror as Fieldy proceeded to get through over 800 paintballs within 3 minutes, and then had to go scratting for paint from one of our 2 remaining players....

...we lost that game, and I promptly told him to get his arse back on Semi!!

....but we still won the tourney (our first win I think....), and I've never really been that bothered about people running full-auto since. I realise now that with the speeds you can fling paint at nowadays in Semi mode (even on a cocker (with a blade frame)), it don't matter shiznik on an air-ball field whether you're running full-auto, burst, OR true Semi, as long as it aint a pump!!

As for the 300fps thing. On a FULL-SIZE 7 man field, you can easily hit your opposite bunker if you are a back player. WHY TURN IT UP??? what the f00ck is the point???? Are these people some sort of sadists who enjoy enflicting pain for the hell of it??? If anything you unneccesarily risk more chance of a smashed ball/barrel break!!! You aint gonna gain anything else!!

If you've got a problem with the paint not breaking, USE BETTER PAINT!!!

WAKE UP!!!!!!

As for the on-field chronoing, do it!....... A crook lock in a car stops people from knicking it more than an alarm does!! Prevention rather than cure.....that's the way to go.....in my humble opinion.....

Night all, speak to you in the morning!!

Dunc.
 

Alex Hicks.

Just your average lunatic
Jul 14, 2001
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The difference is not the speed that you can fling the paint but the fact you do not have control over how many shots you fire. If you accidentally touch the trigger with a semi one ball will fire with full auto it is usually a minimum of three (tested this on my bushy before removing the select fire board). Thats enough to destroy your barrel bag. If someones goggles come off in the game when you happen to be shooting at them then it's not just a case of stopping shooting at them but releasing your finger from the trigger. Sounds as simple but in the heat of the game not necessarly as quick. Turbo and auto response are even worse as the gun can fire a shot after the trigger is released.
Duncster it's not my place to say but I belive you are extreamly irresponsible telling your player to use full auto knwing it yourself to be illegal.
Assuming that tournament was in England then he is knowingly allowing gun laws to be broken and jepordising the future of paintball in this country. Irresponsible people like that should not be running tournaments. If that causes offence so be it but I am sure many other people will agree with me. I am right in thinking the LCD was released after the UKPSF came to the decision that semi was the only allowed fire mode?
Fire modes are unecessary as well as dangerous, as you stated yourself semi's will produce the same rate of fire.
 

mortenlj

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Jul 18, 2001
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GUYS GUYS GUYS

If a player wants/needs to cheat - he will cheat !
If the marshalls are good they might catch a cheater !
If the marshalls are really well trained and motivated they might be able to spot the more clever cheats and catch more cheaters !

If the marshall is using a cheat himself (when he playes) will he ever look for this cheat and bring it in the public eye when he is marshalling ??
Will the clever marshalls learn new ways to cheat by discovering other cheats ??

No matter what you do with regards to limiting the firing modes of the marker, encasing the board in plastic, spraypainting it etc. If somebody has the knowlege to change the actual coding of the firmware or make advanced electronic circuits, the person will most likely have the ability to hide his doing as well.

Having worked with electronics and software for more than 15 years I can come up with "designer" cheats for all the major markers out there- not because im a genius (like Robbo :D ) but because its so simple you would not believe it !
Some of them might be easily found but the clever ones might take the designer of the board to detect if possible at all.

Trust me there is no way short of a total disassembly and a control of the firmware code itself (which might take days if not weeks to do) that will make anybody aware of some of the more cleaver cheats out there.

There is no simple way to enforce these rulese except on the field, using Chronoes and letting the marshalls take the gun out of the hands of players to testshoot it (which probably wont prove a thing).

Lets see, over the last couple of years I have heard about the following cheats being used in the Millennium series:
Special programs in markers allowing full auto etc. if the player presses a specific sequence on the trigger or any other buttons on the marker.
Full auto markers with the help of a magnet in the gloves of the player.
Fingerrings and squeegies fitted with hex keys allowing for the adjustment of regulators during play(note this is not limited to electronic guns).
Adjustment of Valve dwell on electronic guns giving higher velocity using magnets.
Bolts with different size holes and airflow which changes the velocity of the gun - this is a classic Autococker cheat somebody told me about this at Mayhem in 1995.
And the list goes on !

Since most of the elctronic guns use different Microprocessor, timings, solenoids etc., forget any thought about somebody (like the NPPL or the Millennium series) making a special "program" for all markers out there making them tournament legal - its not in any way possible to do !

Replace the boards in all electronic markers with special non reprogramable - "tamperproof" boards - making sure nobody will ever test a prototype or a homemade marker at a tournament - KEEP DREAMING it is not likely to ever happen (unless you guys are willing to pay for it) !

Let the manufacturers do the work and tell them to make only semi boards which cant be reprogrammed - this wont solve the problem since cheats will still be implemented, maybe not in the code of the microprocessor but as add-ons or mechanical changes.

No matter what, some people will always try to find a competitive advantage and use it (legal or not).

Flashback - Things on the edge: Weird colors on the jerseys, Soft loaders , stickers on loaders, neoprene peaked caps, turbo mode and dont forget the magical Thunderwipes (best gloves money could buy).

We need simple filed enforceable rules !

Just my 2 cents

Morten
 

Duncster

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Jul 7, 2001
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Alex,

My post was basically an admission of guilt by myself. The tourney organiser in question shall remain nameless as I believe he saw the error of his ways and I can't remember playing against full-auto's since.

I am in no way endorse-ing the use of any other fire modes other than true semi. I also hold my hands up and agree with you that I was indeed a very irresponsible person for doing this........but believe me, I wasn't alone.....and I would never do anything like this again.

Dunc.
 

Collier

Arsed?
Jan 2, 2002
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Originally posted by Duncster
Alex,

My post was basically an admission of guilt by myself. The tourney organiser in question shall remain nameless as I believe he saw the error of his ways and I can't remember playing against full-auto's since.

I am in no way endorse-ing the use of any other fire modes other than true semi. I also hold my hands up and agree with you that I was indeed a very irresponsible person for doing this........but believe me, I wasn't alone.....and I would never do anything like this again.

Dunc.
:eek:
Hang 'im, HAAAAANG 'IM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well Dunc I'm disgusted, hang your head in shame........

Serously though if the event organiser allowed different modes and it was around the time that Dunc said then I'm sure there hadn't been an official ruling at that point (hey I could be wrong) then I don't really see a problem.
Both burst modes and full auto stop firing when you take your finger of the trigger.
Now the rules and law now say that no modes other then semi are allowed and I agree with that, modes are fun though! :D:D

Paul.
 

Collier

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Jan 2, 2002
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Originally posted by Duncster
Alex,

My post was basically an admission of guilt by myself. The tourney organiser in question shall remain nameless as I believe he saw the error of his ways and I can't remember playing against full-auto's since.

I am in no way endorse-ing the use of any other fire modes other than true semi. I also hold my hands up and agree with you that I was indeed a very irresponsible person for doing this........but believe me, I wasn't alone.....and I would never do anything like this again.

Dunc.
:eek:
Hang 'im, HAAAAANG 'IM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well Dunc I'm disgusted, hang your head in shame........

Serously though if the event organiser allowed different modes and it was around the time that Dunc said then I'm sure there hadn't been an official ruling at that point (hey I could be wrong) then I don't really see a problem.
Both burst modes and full auto stop firing when you take your finger of the trigger.
Now the rules and law now say that no modes other then semi are allowed and I agree with that, modes are fun though! :D:D

Paul.