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Chronicles of War

Buddha 3

Hamfist McPunchalot
Originally posted by Tyger
It sells, don't kid yourself.

If it didn't, would the market support it? No. SC VIllage makes a lot of money on the walk-on market, and that market wants the war fantasy. Sorry, it's the way it is. And I fall back to my other post.

-Tyger
The site that we train at has, alongside a number of Sup'Air fields, a good number of woodland fields. They are each based around a certain theme, and most of them include such things as huts, barracks, and what have you. The rentals seem to enjoy these fields tremendously, but I'm glad to say that they avoid the war theme. Most of these fields carry names of films such as Temple of Doom, and other fantasy flicks. The rentals enjoy carrying a box containing a "relic" just as much as they enjoy carrying a box of "explosives".
So it is possible to avoid the war thing, it just perhaps takes a wee bit more imagination.
 

Tyger

Old School, New Tricks
Buddha : Precaher / Choir here.

Problem is that many fields revel in these, becasue they CAN. Look, Paintball, int he states, was originally marketed as a 'friendly wargame'. If you want to get technical, you've still got fields liek "Skirmish", "SC Village", War in the Woods", and many others along the same line.

Once tournament paintball get's it's collective excrememnt together, then rec will say "wow! This IS a sport!" and follow in kind. Until then, "red = green" War fantasy = Cash Money.

I'm not a fan of it either, it's just the reality.

-Tyger
 

Alien

MattttttLock
Jul 10, 2001
666
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Wales
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And as for loving rec? Why do I recall crawling through the weeds and hearing from behind me in a thick accent "I WANT MY SUP-AIR BUNKERS!!!!"
Damn, You remembered that:eek: :D

Crawling thru the undergrowth is harder thanplaying back in tourny ball:p

Sup air in mid field that will be intresting (someone better tell Salm:D sniping from the woods will happen there;) )


Alien
 

Tyger

Old School, New Tricks
How could I forget? It was a CLASSIC!!!! :) That and Yoda plowing through a stuffed pizza, but I won't go there.

For the rest of you guys, it was PRICELESS To head this voice behind me, and I'm up to my EARS in the stuff, having a BLAST! And Alien saying that he didn't think that rec-ball was this exhausting! :)

Oh, Alien : I'll bring my KP in May, we'll be longballin' 'em and they'll never see it coming. :)

And I'll get a black matrix for the weekend, if that'll help. :rolleyes: ;) :D

-Tyger
 

JoseDominguez

New cut and carved spine!
Oct 25, 2002
3,185
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I'm not even that bothered about the war-theme, take the predator type scenarios: it's just in a generic jungle no names mentioned, capture the general, take out the bunker it's fantasy and it's meant to be fun. It's when you start talking about specific nationalities that it gets dodgy. Take out the blue team is a lot less offensive than take out the Germans/Americans/Vietnamese etc... In an ideal world we could do without the war-games type stuff, but that isn't going to happen, it's a lot easier to make up some names or keep it generic "a rival nation", "the opposing forces" etc... There's lots of ideas that could be used, I've used werewolves (find the silver paintballs in a hidden ammo-crate) etc... it's easy.
 

MXS

New Member
Feb 3, 2002
17
0
0
Texas
www.mxspsortz.com
From the source

14 different "war games" scenarios at locations around the country tied together under the banners of some serious industry and media support. The Big Idea that ties them all together is the notion these are educational studies on the futility of conflict and how such might be avoided in the future. Pretty clever but does that change anything and does it really matter? How big a deal are wargame scenarios anyway?
I want to thank Baca Loco for bringing this topic up for discussion among paintball players who may not be familiar with lengthy scenario games and how they are structured - particularly by MXS. Though there are some misconceptions represented among the responses, that is to be expected without first-hand knowledge and some clarification from the company personnel that Baca Loco has addressed. Please allow me to throw in some points here, and hopefully address some of the discrepancies with clarity.

Firstly, the readers here may have assumed the wrong idea about what the series we are producing is about if they did not take it upon themselves to research the MXS website. It is not "war games" or "re-enactments" of battles we are producing in our scenarios.
If you think about it, though, if you are to have two teams shoot paint at each other for a reason, there must be some sort of conflict, in most instances. Therefore, this would constitute a "battle" in its simplest form. From the beginning of our sport to present day, two teams oppose each other in a competition by shooting paint-filled projectiles from paintball "guns" at each other to eliminate their opponents. When you have 100 or 200 players on each side, that competition could be classified as a battle or a "war" between two factions.
That is the reality of what rec and scenario paintballers do, no matter what word you call it.

MXS is in its fourth season of producing 24-hour role-playing scenario games for players who enjoy playing lengthy competitive games which encompass night play, role-playing and lots of paintball shooting. Make no mistake, these games are a marathon competition, with established scenario teams vying for a victory over their opponents by utilizing strategy, tactics and weaponry simulated from real-life ("guns", "mortars", LAWS, grenades - all these things supplied by very large and thriving paintball industry representatives).
If the paintball industry has such a distaste for such items, why have these items been readily supplied - and constantly upgraded and enhanced - for paintball players to purchase?
They are regulated, tested, approved and supplied for consumers who will use them.

I am a former member of one of the very first scenario "teams" created in the United States. From the very first role-playing scenario ever written and produced in 1988, the storylines for these games have consisted of conflict, battles, competition and war. It is not that scenario producers are insensitive, war-mongering, policically incorrect dweebs. It is what the demand has been from the players that determines the more successful games.

In 2000, MXS created eight original storylines based upon the prophecies of the end of the world. The first nationwide scenario series, "Prophecies 2000," was birthed upon the end of mankind as we knew it, with a power struggle between the biblical forces of good and evil. There were blatant religious and political tones, as well as concepts involving how men would respond when presented with the end of civilization. You know what - not one player that season brought to my attention that they were offended or resented any implications of religious or political impropriety on my part. They saw a paintball game that allowed them to choose between being an "evil" person or a "good" person and to be SOMEONE ELSE for 24 hours.

That's right. An escape from reality in a fantasy whereby they could play their favorite sport as a character of their choosing.

THAT is what scenario games are about. Period. Totally.

In 2001, MXS produced a series of 12 games inspired from "Legends" old and new - from Stonehenge (Druids versus Romans) to Arc of the Covenant (Indiana Jones, anyone?), to Bermuda Triangle (modern-day pirates versus FBI), to Cthulu (ack! monsters!) to Anasazi (two extinct Indian tribes and why they disappeared).

In 2002, MXS produced 15 events in a series called "Future Shock" where we took a look at "some of the greatest fictional works of conflict ever written." From alternative history by Harry Turtledove to comic book characters to computer games, the players had never experienced a series of paintball events like it before - and they ate it up, by creating costumes, props and their own characters.

Every one of these games required background research on my part. The players did one better, and read the books I suggested, or the research links on the Internet that they could find. Why? So they could play their CHARACTERS with accuracy within the stories' structures and "locations".

This is not mindless paint-flinging. These games require structure and understanding. There is a federally copyrighted set of rules the players all play by - the
General Scenario Rules of Play , which took dozens of years of combined scenario experience to create.

For the 2003 season, MXS asked the players what kind of games they wanted most to participate in. We had done works of fiction, sci-fi, fantasy, movies, original stories and alien encounters. The resounding response - much to my surprise - was the players wanting more "realistic" conflicts, without the "magic tree" syndrome and special "spooky powers" for a chosen few. Without delving into the been-there, done-that aspect of every other scenario producer in the country who has re-written the history of war with paintballs, I had to come up with a viable series of paintball games WITHOUT alluding to the bloodshed and gore we all fear in our industry. Not to mention the insult it could stir among our family and friends in the armed forces, past and present.

Oh yes, I had to consider all the implications of producing a series of games about "war" no matter the game structure.

If one was to look at the message boards on the MXS website, you'll see - even with this accursed series title "Chronicles of War" - that the players spend more time taunting and laughing with each other, helping each other, and setting up group camping than they do talking about shooting each other. There is no talk of WAR or how absurd it is to create a series of paintball events inspired by computer games - which is what "Chronicles of War" is.

I am not producing "wargame scenarios" as Baca Loco suggested. The games the players will be playing are inspired from computer games! The "educational study" that Baca Loco referred to is the premise of the fictional entity named "The Chronicler" who is researching why mankind has fought battles and why, so he may understand in the event mankind should take up arms against his "leaders." The players at these events will be "subjects" in "simulations" that "The Chronicler" and his "leaders" have set up to better understand how mankind fights each other (or aliens, and even skeletons in the Land of the Dead) and to chronicle the results. Thus, the name of the series, "Chronciles of War."

If Baca Loco and some of the responders here had delved a little deeper into the website, he would have seen we are NOT doing the invasion of Normandy, nor any other re-enactment of any historical war. Yes, we are doing a game INSPIRED BY the computer game "Medals of Honor," but our game is only taking aspects of that computer game.

I do not do re-enactments, unlike some other Big Game and Scenario producers. I find it tasteless and insulting, as many of the responders here have posted. There are enough avenues of creativity to warrant a conflict for competition without having to produce "BlackHawk Down" - or the ever-popular and constantly produced "D-Day" invasion - though there are THOUSANDS of paintball players who don't care and play these games with zeal repeatedly.

*shrugs*

To each his own. It's all paintball. In the states, it is a different game for the rec players. It's about playing paintball on a large field with lots of eye-candy, machines, special affects, props, specialty weapons, pyrotechnics, costumes, and a hundred ways to "die." It's what's been done and what will continue - on a grander scale each time, as producers and the industry strive to beat their competitor for the dollars the paintball players choose to spend at these games.

I welcome any and all comments to me personally, and encourage everyone to research and learn how to expand themselves and their game.

For more information: www.mxsportz.com

Diane "Mother" McKinnon
Event Director
Mackz Xtreme Sportz
mother@mxsportz.com
 

Buddha 3

Hamfist McPunchalot
Diane,

Thanks for sharing your vision with us. It's always good to hear "both sides".
Reading through your post, I can't help but get the impression that in fact you seem to agree with most of us. As you may have noticed, the thread has moved on a bit, and it was no longer discussing one particular event. From your post I understand that you also feel that "pulling another D-day" is bad taste, and that you prefer to host fictional scenarios. I don't think anyone will have big problems with that.
As for saying that a paintball game always is a conflict, or war, I always felt it was more like a grown up's version of tag, or dodgeball...
 

MXS

New Member
Feb 3, 2002
17
0
0
Texas
www.mxspsortz.com
Aye, being away for a holiday took me out of the loop for a bit. This thread was brought to my attention a few days ago, and I have just found the time and means to express myself here. There has been some very good discussion on this topic, with many views I have heard before over the years.

This controversy is nothing new, really, and will continue on. It's just another aspect of the industry that not everybody "gets" or chooses to be a part of, just like those who do not understand the draw of playing paintball around large balloons.
;)

You have to do it to understand it and appreciate it - and those who love it.

Cheers!
 

Tyger

Old School, New Tricks
Hello Dianne, good to see you're on the boards here.

I'm going to admit here that I'm biased, it's something a lot of people know, against scenario games. After a Dollack game a few years back I've avoided scenario games for the most part, and it's not anything that I go out of my way to get involved in. I've been to EMR's Quest (which is morre an excuse to be silly than scenario), and a few local "Scenario games" (which are just dressed-up rec days, and as long as you go in knowing that you won't be dissapointed...)

But after Dollack... Well... I've never attended an MXS game for a reason, I know full well I'll approach it with the wrong mindset and I won't enjoy myself, in spite of efforts to the otherwise.

Where you say that players banter back and forth, and so on and so forth, I don't see that. I see the "grunts" asking the refs "What's the scenario?" and "What's the mission again?" and, sometimes "We have a mission?". Let me tell you my last impression of a scenario game (NOT including SPPLAT attck, which IMHO wasn't a scenario game, it was just a really cool big game...)

At the Dollack game I attended I was assaulted by the XO of the "VC" team. The last time I checked Dollack's rules, they include "You may not physically touch another player or his marker." If you want the whole story, I'll take it to private mail. Suffice to say I was "discouraged" from calling the cops and I was told "It's part of scenario play." and "Boys will be boys." Because of that, I've developed a strong dislike for scenario games in general.

Then add to that the fact that several people are still smarting over recent wars. I can find you a '99 pickup truck with an anti "Jane Fonda" bumper sticker on it to prove my point. When I see a picture of a young boy, possibly 16-19, wearing an SS uniform, standing at attention at a paintball field, I get shivers. Mostly becasue I remember 20/20 almost going with a story about paintball that would have probably rocked the game, and I have an episode of "Nightline" in which Ted Koppel talks to a psychaiatrist about the horrors of paintball and recreational warfare. (If there's an intrest, I'll see if I can put them up on webdog, but don't tell NBC, they'll have a fit...)

I don't have a problem with scenario games that are based in fantasy, that's cool. Enjoy yourselves, and have a good time with it. Shoot an "Aardvarkian" for me. It's when scenario games trivialise war, and trivialise ultimate sacrifice that I have a problem. MXS doesn't do this. We all know who does, but I won't name names.

Your post is, like Buddah said, mirroring what we all said already. I'm just explaingin myself, probably too much, and probably to a point where I'll get a letter from a lawyer.

Scenario play is a flavor of the larger pie, and it's cool. If you find something you love, go with it. I've tried it, gotten burned too many times, and I'll stick to regular rec, big games, and the dabble in tournament play. It would take a hell of a lot to get me to dabble in another scenaro like I've expirenced before. (for instance, blackmail...)

-Tyger